The Perfect Pokemon App on Android and iOS

Active Stop undercutting. Seriously.

Discussion in 'Rules and Suggestions' started by Krelbit, Mar 13, 2016.

Question for the buyers - Would you be comfortable buying at a higher price for sellers?

  1. Yeah, if they're efficient and knowledgable they deserve decent compensation for their time.

  2. No, prices should be kept as low as possible for the benefit of the consumer.

  3. I seem to be on the fence with this one.

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  1. Arceusrsz

    Arceusrsz Pokémon Trainer

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    I definitely agree with this thread. At the time of posting this, i have to go somewhere, but when i get back I am definitely changing my prices
     
  2. Element Of Smash

    Element Of Smash Unslaad Krongrah Donor

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    This is essentially distilled Game Theory. I'm not a seller, nor am I an actual economist, but I applaud whats happening here. What's being striven for here is an optimal solution to The Prisoner's Dilemma. Everyone works together to achieve a better outcome. This includes us buyers.
    I haven't been here a long time or anything. But I already find myself a frequent buyer. And I buy to build a base upon which I can compete not only this season, but seasons to come. Quality is in my best interest, as much as the business from people like me (hitherto referred to as "my" or "mine") is in the best interest of sellers. I work hard for my money, and I am happy to part with for something meaningful to me. If I have to part with a little bit more of it to make sure that I can continue to receive quality product that best serves me, I am happy to do so.
    AFTERTHOUGHT EDIT:
    This is actually something I was still considering. It's been a rocky road full of uncertainty learning all the minutiae of buying pokemon, and frankly fear of looking stupid or uninformed kept me from asking many direct questions until I warmed up to the community. I distinctly remember wishing there were some sort of lexicon or guide for all the local jargon. I knew that if I bought a pokemon and it turned out to not be what I wanted, that it would be on me. The seller just gives what is requested of them.
    I've learned a lot by proxy, and a bit by trial and error. I propose that I or someone else create this, while working alongside an experienced seller (preferably several of them) to ensure the information is as concise and accurate as possible. This I believe will benefit not only newer buys on the site, but in turn the community as a whole.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2016
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  3. Martin

    Martin I'm just kinda here Staff Member Mod Donor

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    I'm not someone who regularly buys or sells on the site, but I have a GCSE in Business Studies (as meaningless as one is rofl) as well as experience as a regular on around twelve different forums--all with different levels of emphasis put onto being community-led as opposed to rule-led--so I may be able to be of at least a little assistance here.

    I do agree that a seller's guide to pricing is definitely a good place to start. The key problematic trends in pricing come from the fact that sellers aren't really given any sort of direction with regards to the best way to price stuff. Instead, all you get is "here are the rules, here is the minimum selling price, go sell some 'mons". As someone who is a regular on around twelve different forums, I have seen what happens when guidelines are not provided. If you give people basic rules to follow without giving them a guide alongside it, they will follow them extremely rigidly. It is similar to when there are no rules to follow: you get a number of extremely poor posts which lead to the deterioration of the section. What a forum needs to do is lay out its rules and then throw them a rope to help them get started, but if you don't give them enough rope they don't know the best way to post and revert to their poor posting habits. It is why raising the minimum price on its own isn't a particularly effective strategy: you are not giving enough rope to new sellers, and as such they stick rigidly to the rules (e.g. if you set a minimum price of 20 PC they go off of instinct and assume that lower price=more buyers, and as such they will stick to 20 PC like glue. If you raise the price to 100 PC, they get pushed up with it like a paper man glued to the end of a lolly stick and they just adjust their prices to the new minimum).

    I think ultimately it is down to a balance of both a: the amount of rope sellers are thrown and b: where the most appropriate price floor lies. Currently I think that the price floor is too low, regardless of whether there is enough guidance towards pricing. Having a higher price floor subconsciously tells sellers prices need to be reasonably high in order to a: maintain the site economy and b: make it worth their while. However, I think that it is important to not make the floor too high either, as otherwise it removes the incentive for newer buyers. Ultimately, a successful market is a matter of both psychology and business smarts, meaning that subconscious triggers are a good way to encourage better, more competitive businesses.

    Taking all of this into account, here is my suggested course of action. Feel free to make comments on this or whatever; I'm sure a lot of people are better informed on the topic than myself due to more experience with regards to buying and selling.
    • Raise the price floor to either 30 or 40 PC. This puts across a message that gives sellers enough incentive to sell for a reasonable price without putting new buyers off of the site due to the need for financial investment for lowest-cost sales not existing, as this can be achieved with a minimum of 20/30 replies or 10/15 threads after the sign-up PC bonus and before consideration of additional PC earned through things such as completing profile, getting likes etc.
    • Create a sticky thread detailing the best way for sellers to determine appropriate pricing. Comment on things like time investment, software value etc. in this post and also make notes about finding niche markets and identifying pricing based on competition within/around your own time zone. This gives newer sellers enough rope to not rigidly stick to the minimums, which will in turn lead to users becoming more independent with pricing more quickly--improving both the site economy and meaning that more users come out with enough incentive to continue selling for an extended time period, which makes the market more competitive.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2016
  4. Arceusrsz

    Arceusrsz Pokémon Trainer

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    i think raising the price floor may help. However, raising the price floor may be slightly redundent as well because things like items become too expensive. perhaps raising the price floor for pokemon to at least 50 but making a separate floor for things like items that remains at 20 is the best option
     
  5. iBestest

    iBestest Pokémon Trainer

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    I really don't understand why you're ENTITLED to making more than a McDonald's employee..

    With that said though, I am with you guys.. As a newbie coming in I had to deal with Cait's ludicrously low prices. It's crazy. 30pc pokes keeps me busy all day and I made enough money in a day to buy a combo meal at McDonald's. (FAR FAR under what the employees make) Then come today she went down to 25pc..

    I really and honestly am trying to figure out why she is selling here. There are far better ways to make money than this with that kind of time investment to payout. I surely am not going to be selling for 30pc for long. I have only put myself through this workload to gain feedback and trust.

    In the two days I have been selling here, I have come just 2 positive ratings below her count. And I have delivered FAR less orders overall. I take care of my buyers 10fold and it shows in that difference.

    Truly I am wracking my brain to understand why or how she can afford to do this like she is. My conclusion?

    I am banking that she is overseas. Has to be. There is no other way it makes any logical sense. BUT WAIT.. she tells people she is on EST.. Maybe I am wrong.

    And to top it off I haven't been MILKING the 1credit per post thing with meaningless posts like her and her buyers have.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2016
  6. GiaQuando

    GiaQuando The Great Tactician Will Not Fall Trusted Seller Badge Smaug Friendzilla Donor Dex Contributor Iron Will

    U say u are with us yet u sell at 30 PC?
    U say u understand the problem yet u decide to go and become part of it.
    Sorry mate but with such actions I can not take u seriously...
    Also u say u make a lot PC...Wow well done u are really great man u ctively help cait on ruining an economy the older members here are trying to shape up.
    Also I will tell u why he typed the Mac Donald thing...
    Most of the Top Sellers are adults that means we have jobs which indicates are free time is limited,now spending our free time to make pokemon for 20 cent per each(even less if u consider the cashout rate) seems like literally a waist of time.Now if most of the undercutters(Who probably are kids that want to get a hold on every penny they can penny they can get) want to make a ''profit'' by selling as low as possible well just remember u just make most of the site see you in a bad way since most of your customers will spam to get the PC needed which indicates rule-breaking activity and isn't beneficial for anyone...
     
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  7. iBestest

    iBestest Pokémon Trainer

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    You seriously didn't read my post clearly.. And I didn't say I made a bunch.. I said I did better than her on FEEDBACK in LESS SALES time..
     
  8. Matt_192

    Matt_192 Official Server Crasher Staff Member Admin Will Not Fall Journalist Friendzilla Donor Dex Contributor Iron Will

    Gia covered most of what I wanted to say, but she's in Canada in the EST timezone
     
  9. ThePokemonFanboy

    ThePokemonFanboy Pokémon Trainer

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    The two of them have covered everything I had to say really. But I'm thinking if we all confront her together shell stop. Shes a nice girl (Ive talked to her before) so nothing to harsh but we should at lest try.

    Sent from my LG-D800 using Tapatalk
     
  10. iBestest

    iBestest Pokémon Trainer

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    I am 29 years old. I understand the comparison to a McDonald's employee very well.. But the way he went about describing his concern by attacking McDonald's employees isn't right or fair. To be honest the MARKET doesn't care about YOU it cares about itself.

    You have to deliver what it wants. Whatever that may be.

    But yeah.. Cait coming in and insanely undercutting the sellers so juristically is a low blow.

    Just hope you guys can understand what I was trying to iterate in my original post.

    And no I am not a McDonald's employee. :p
     
  11. Matt_192

    Matt_192 Official Server Crasher Staff Member Admin Will Not Fall Journalist Friendzilla Donor Dex Contributor Iron Will

    We tried this. She went to doulie after 1 mod just moderated her thread to clear out spam and also pulled me under the rug because I tried to explain cj's reasoning.

    She may be a nice seller, but she'll seemingly do anything to keep the prices low low low
     
  12. iBestest

    iBestest Pokémon Trainer

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    She told me she didn't mind raising her prices just now..
     
  13. Matt_192

    Matt_192 Official Server Crasher Staff Member Admin Will Not Fall Journalist Friendzilla Donor Dex Contributor Iron Will

    > asks to change prices
    > does so

    > moderates thread and tries to qualm an argument
    > gets doulie involved

    I actually give up
     
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  14. Krelbit

    Krelbit Guest

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    Woah now. My blow was not specifically to Walmart, but the entire institution of unskilled labor. My argument is that selling pokemon does have some barriers to entry as the market goes, as well as the knowledge to operate in such a market, making it more or less a (very niche) skilled labor action.

    I can put in absolutely no effort in applying for a fresh new job at mickey d's, but to sell pokemon I've got to learn about evs, ivs, type pairings, team synergy, transfer only moves, events, legitimacy, vgc, the tiers of smogon and even self marketing. It only feels right that I should be compensated equally if not more for the time and effort I've put in.
     
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  15. Martin

    Martin I'm just kinda here Staff Member Mod Donor

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    McDonald's even give you training on the job. To sell 'mons you need to a: have the software, b: have the time and c: have the understanding of the market. With McDonald's you just need the lowest pass mark in the base-level maths qualification. With Pokémon you're completely on your own from when you start and need to have something worth a lot more than an E at GCSE.
     
  16. iBestest

    iBestest Pokémon Trainer

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    Hey I totally understand guys, and like I said I am on your side. Just saying that when people display ENTITLEMENT in that manner while knocking other people working hard in their own right is a bit rough.

    The amount of work I did while matching Cait's price was crazy.. and I accrued just under 3k pc for all that work. Insane.

    But that is business sometimes.. She has figured out a software apparently that makes it very little work for her apparently and that unfortunately #@*!% the rest of us. And she is content with making less than 100 bucks a week because she doesn't have to do the workload we have to apparently.

    It sucks, but this has been happening forever. As long as society exists, these kinds of things will inevitably happen at times. It appears it's not really going to be "perfectpokemon.com" any more as it's clearly transitioning to "caitspokemon.com" There is no competing against that price point on this website without having access to her kind of software.

    If I were her I would have approached the sellers here and offered to automate their sales and delivery process for them for 20 or 30pc per pokemon.. She would make more. And she would be HELPING everyone else at the same time. WIN WIN.

    As it stands.. It's Cait wins only. (And she wins less than in my scenario)
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2016
  17. Krelbit

    Krelbit Guest

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    lol, "special software." It's just hex editing. There's absolutely no way to streamline that in a manner that hasn't been done already.

    And you know what tool I'm talking about.
     
  18. iBestest

    iBestest Pokémon Trainer

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    I wouldn't be foolish enough personally to feel that there isn't more possibility in programing than what's available..
     
  19. ThePokemonFanboy

    ThePokemonFanboy Pokémon Trainer

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    Krelb is right. I could say I have special software also. All I have is a hex editor as a hombrew app that I can gen from my 3ds not pc needed. Its no big deal

    Sent from my LG-D800 using Tapatalk
     
  20. iBestest

    iBestest Pokémon Trainer

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    I dunno but grinding out that many orders for that little doesn't make any logical sense.. So I would be inclined to think she's got something going for her.. or she is in the Philippines or somewhere else where that's not actually bad money.
     

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