Active Create-a-Pokemon (CAP) #1 - Typing Ideas - Voting Closed

[Matt_192]

Phase 2 - Typing Ideas

Spoiler: Winning Concept

Name: Sticky Web 2.0
Description of Concept: Effectively, this concept would allow for a Sticky Web Pokemon that is a) not a suicide lead and b) does not completely kill momentum.
Reason for Concept: Currently, in OU, there are only two real Sticky Web users: Smeargle and Shuckle (since Galvantula is kinda ass). A sticky web user that wouldn't be a suicide lead would really help the strategy in OU IMO, and it would allow teams to not have to run a suicide lead just to get up Sticky Web (and Stealth Rocks if you're lucky). By using this idea, we can also see what Pokemon rise up in a metagame with an increased emphasis on Speed Control.

Spoiler: Runner-Up

Name: Trick Room Setter
Description of Concept: A trick room setter that could somehow improve the viability of trick room teams in the OU environment.
Reasons for Concept: Trick room in concept has always been incredibly interesting to me, but unfortunately with only 5 turns of trick room and some unfortunately mediocre setters for the OU environment, trick room teams have never really taken off. There are plenty of Pokemon already ready to abuse it (mega Mawile, mega Abamasnow, Escavalier, Dragalgae, etc), so all TR really needs is a little push in the support department to start making a relevant impact IMO.

Thanks to everyone for sending in submissions, but this concept won the vote with 6 votes in its favour! Like I said on the previous thread, if you wish to resubmit your idea, please feel free to do so in the next iteration of CAP (I see no reason to do another straight after this one finishes) so ready/improve your ideas until then.

However, we still have most of the CAP process ahead of us! This thread will be about discussing typing only so please do not start discussing anything else.

EDIT: We are now doing two Pokemon, so please carry on with discussion!

 

[Martin]

Well, seeing as it is Sticky Web, Bug typing is somewhat mandatory. I was thinking maybe a Bug-/Steel-type would be good as it leaves it with only 1 weakness, neutrality to Stealth Rock and leaves a lot of possibilities that we could go with for moves and abilities, such as Sturdy, Bullet Punch, Iron Head etc. Not saying that these should be the moves: just giving examples of possibilities with the typing.

The other option we could go with would be Bug-/Dark-type due to the disruptive nature of Sticky Web being represented by the Evil-type (Japanese name)

 

[Strawberries]

It's gotta be at least bug xD

Bug Steel would be a great typing to have, as it doesn't have a weakness to Stealth rocks, and only has One weakness. Plus, it leaves it with a lot more options with the pokemon itself.

Just my opinion.

 

[Matt_192]

On second thought, thanks to phenix's input, I have decided to do two Pokemon in this CAP process at the same time! Like phenix said, it wouldn't be much of a metagame if we only had one additional Pokemon. My plan when she said this was to do 3 at the same time, but there were two concepts finishing in 3rd place and things would have got messy, sorry :[

Other Concept: Trick Room Setter

Spoiler: Runner-Up

Name: Trick Room Setter
Description of Concept: A trick room setter that could somehow improve the viability of trick room teams in the OU environment.
Reasons for Concept: Trick room in concept has always been incredibly interesting to me, but unfortunately with only 5 turns of trick room and some unfortunately mediocre setters for the OU environment, trick room teams have never really taken off. There are plenty of Pokemon already ready to abuse it (mega Mawile, mega Abamasnow, Escavalier, Dragalgae, etc), so all TR really needs is a little push in the support department to start making a relevant impact IMO.

 

[phenix]

I know it doesn't resist rocks, but since Shuckle is the only one to speak of with Bug/Rock; it would be an interesting take on it. It could viably have access to rocks and spikes and still have a decent lack of weakness. It would also give an OU viable bug that isn't 4x weak to something and provide for the team beyond passing.

 

[notsoclutch]

Bug is obviously a must for sticky web and I think that bug ground is a typing that has been unexplored in the competitive scene. Adding ground to bug helps with the rock weakness and ground Pokemon are generally durable like the concept mon you came up with @Matt_192

As for the TR setter, I think that the dark and poison types are well overdue for the setting role. Thematically they both make sense with the whole tricking aspect of the move and both are fairly viable as types that in and of themselves are underused in Pokemon currently.

 

[Blaguard]

After talking about it, Bug/Rock seems like the best choice to balance our web-setter. Yes, Bug/Steel on has one weakness, but it also already exists in OU. Adding another would run the risk of being another Scizor (if we give it an offensive presence) while outclassing Forretress completely (since I'm pretty sure we want it bulky. Besides, what's the fun in CAP if we use a tried and true typing (Scizor, Genesect) as opposed to adding a viable option in an underused typing? Shuckle, Crustle, and Armaldo are literally the only ones of this type.
While Ground/Bug would be an interesting typing, it would leave it with more weaknesses, with Water, Fire, Flying, and Ice. Three of those are extremely common offensive types in OU, two of them are Talonflame STAB. Bug/Rock offers one less weakness with Rock, Water, and Steel. Steel isn't a very common offensive type, so while it keeps a Rock weakness, it seems like a worthy trade-off.

With Ground/Rock you minimize weaknesses without re-using an overused type, as well as maintaining a neutrality to Fire and Flying (aka Talonflame).

 

[Martin]

Personally, I'm not too keen on Bug-/Rock-type. The problem with it is that, if we look at all the Rock-/Bug-types (the Shuckle, Crustle and Anorith lines), it very quickly becomes clear that they are all centred around hazards in one form or another (the Shuckle and Crustle lines lay them, the Anorith line removes them).

I am personally leaning towards either Bug-/Ground- (due it being a very unexplored type (with there only being Wormadam... let us never speak of that abomination), it allows us to go in a lot of directions with it and I'm not thinking so much about how good the typing is defensively due to bug being VERY hard to improve upon and the offensive utility provided by Ground-type STAB (as well as an Electric-type immunity) allowing it to work well as possibly a bulky attacker) or Bug-/Dark- (once again, a very unexplored type, allows us to go in lots of directions, bug is hard to fix and dark is thematic for something so disruptive).

As for the Trick Room setter, I feel like Normal-/Ghost- would be a cool typing for it. Not only does it leave it with one weakness, but it also gives it two immunities and there are lots of ways that we could go about it. In addition, Ghost- is a very thematic type for Trick Room, with most Pokemon that get said move being either Psychic- or Ghost-type. The other possibility I was thinking of is Psychic-/Dark- for a lot of the same reasons, but I'm not as interested in that one as I am Normal-/Ghost-.

Also screw these wiki links.

 

[phenix]

IMO, we shouldn't pick something just because it's an unexplored type. It keeps a really common weakness (and one less common) and gains a couple extra...but whatever you guys want. I assume it's meant to be fairly tanky (as it's not a suicide lead). It just looks to me like having weakness to things like ice, water, and fire will be hard to take hits from, as a lot of Pokemon carry coverage of these types.

At the end of the day...the type really depends on the stats we give it and what function it has.

 

[Blaguard]

Besides, while Bug/Rock isn't "new" it's new to OU, as Shuckle is a barely viable setter that will not differ from what we're creating, and Crustle and Armaldo might as well not exist in the tier. So, seeing as this is still an OU CAP, Bug/Rock is a near-unique typing.
And the problem with Bug/Ground or Bug/Dark is your weak to so many common types (Talonflame, guys, Talonflame) so if we're aiming for "not a suicide lead", those are not the types to go with for a defensive presence.

Ghost/Normal would definitely be an interesting typing with its 3 immunities and single weakness (statistically it ranks as one of the top defensive type combos in the game, though Lopunny would be a big problem).

 

[Matt_192]

I think the main issue with typing is making it work thematically. Does anyone have any ideas for a type, that is still thematic, that doesn't include Bug type? I think we all know Bug isn't exactly the greatest defensive type lol.

As for the Trick Room Setter, I think we need to put less emphasis on it being a Psychic type, as Knock Off already hits setters pretty heavily - any ideas?

 

[phenix]

I think the main issue with typing is making it work thematically. Does anyone have any ideas for a type, that is still thematic, that doesn't include Bug type? I think we all know Bug isn't exactly the greatest defensive type lol.

As for the Trick Room Setter, I think we need to put less emphasis on it being a Psychic type, as Knock Off already hits setters pretty heavily - any ideas?

Maybe like a dark or poison spider? I dunno about dual typing on it, but it could make sense.

I like the idea of ghost for a trick roomer. They have the potential to be a nice offensive presence, but around OU you really only have quick glass cannons. A setter could find a nice place with having enough bulk to set up due to the lack of overall weaknesses and a couple immunities. Perhaps it could have something like sticky hold to counteract knock off?

 

[Martin]

Maybe like a dark or poison spider? I dunno about dual typing on it, but it could make sense.

I like the idea of ghost for a trick roomer. They have the potential to be a nice offensive presence, but around OU you really only have quick glass cannons. A setter could find a nice place with having enough bulk to set up due to the lack of overall weaknesses and a couple immunities. Perhaps it could have something like sticky hold to counteract knock off?

The power of Knock Off is still boosted with Sticky Hold - to the point of being permanent (i.e. every Knock Off is 97.5 BP). The only items that don't boost Knock Off are mega stones; sticky hold has no effect sadly.

However, I'd be all for Ghost-/Normal- because it'd open up a LOT of possibilities and we could maybe give it a way to capitalise on having no item or something e.g. by giving it Unburden or an ability that boosts its stats/base powers of attacks when it isn't holding an item that is permanent unlike Unburden. I think that the Knock Off weakness is less important for a Dark-type weakness than being Pursuit weak in this case, but I am so drawn towards Normal-/Ghost- that I'm not that discouraged by the pursuit weakness - especially considering the fact that this can be worked around somewhat by giving it Baton Pass (the only switch-out move that isn't caught by Pursuit).

 

[notsoclutch]

We should probably narrow this down. When does the next stage start?

Personally like the ground/bug and normal/ghost types.

 

[phenix]

Ground/Bug just really seems to have too many common weaknesses for something that's not supposed to suicide though. Unless it's going to have phenomenal bulk and thick fat lol, I dunno if it'll end up better off than Gal.

I like the idea of Normal/Ghost or Dark/Ghost (for limited weakness and a neutrality to knock-off). It'd do a totally different role than Sableye, so I feel like that's a non-issue.

 

[Martin]

IMO, Ground-/Bug- would be rather good typing tbh. It does do a lot of good stuff defensively (e.g. immunity to electric, that allows it to shut down Volt Switchers barring M-Man and Rotom-W and a neutrality to rock which no other webbers have, allowing it to come in repeatedly without too much support) and IMO a lot of people are looking at the cons of the typing without looking at its key merits. I'm going to list out the pros and cons of the Bug-/Ground-type:

Pros:

• Neutrality to Stealth Rock
• Immunity to Volt Switch, allowing it to kill momentum for the opposing team
• Ground is a very powerful type offensively (SE v.s. 5 types before consideration of dual typing)
• The two types don't stack any weaknesses
• has 5 resistances and one immunity before consideration of ability
  
• Leaves lots of options open that we can follow up with (e.g. Earthquake, U-Turn, Megahorn, Bulldoze, Sand Tomb etc.)
• Thematic

Cons:

• Bug is awful both offensively and defensively
  
• 4 weaknesses (fire, flying, water and ice)

That is what I can see from a typing perspective alone, and tbh I think that a lot of people are SERIOUSLY overrating the problems with having ground typing (the pros drastically outweigh the cons). I mean come on people say that this typing is poor defensively when Latias (i.e. one of the best tanks in the game) has more weaknesses (all six of which are to common offensive types and one of which is to Pursuit/Knock Off) and about the same number of resistances/imminities. Seriously don't underrate the effect that stats, abilities and offensive/supportive options can have towards the viability of a Pokemon.

 

[Blaguard]

IMO, Ground-/Bug- would be rather good typing tbh. It does do a lot of good stuff defensively (e.g. immunity to electric, that allows it to shut down Volt Switchers barring M-Man and Rotom-W and a neutrality to rock which no other webbers have, allowing it to come in repeatedly without too much support) and IMO a lot of people are looking at the cons of the typing without looking at its key merits. I'm going to list out the pros and cons of the Bug-/Ground-type:

Pros:

• Neutrality to Stealth Rock
• Immunity to Volt Switch, allowing it to kill momentum for the opposing team
• Ground is a very powerful type offensively (SE v.s. 5 types before consideration of dual typing)
• The two types don't stack any weaknesses
• has 5 resistances and one immunity before consideration of ability
  
• Leaves lots of options open that we can follow up with (e.g. Earthquake, U-Turn, Megahorn, Bulldoze, Sand Tomb etc.)
• Thematic

Cons:

• Bug is awful both offensively and defensively
  
• 4 weaknesses (fire, flying, water and ice)

That is what I can see from a typing perspective alone, and tbh I think that a lot of people are SERIOUSLY overrating the problems with having ground typing (the pros drastically outweigh the cons). I mean come on people say that this typing is poor defensively when Latias (i.e. one of the best tanks in the game) has more weaknesses (all six of which are to common offensive types and one of which is to Pursuit/Knock Off) and about the same number of resistances/imminities. Seriously don't underrate the effect that stats, abilities and offensive/supportive options can have towards the viability of a Pokemon.

Problem with the Volt Switch immunity is that M-Manectric and Rotom are the most common VS users in the tier (barring Thundurus, which wrecks you anyway).
And since we still want this thing to not be a suicide lead, having it weak to both of Talonflame's STABs as well as Ice still seems like a bad option.
Honestly the idea of getting away from Bug sounds pretty great (for instance a Dark-type spider, similar to Drapion's situation), but Bug-Ground just doesn't seem like a good defensive presence for what we want.
Also why are Bulldoze and Sand Tomb pros? Do people actually run those or do they just pad the move list?

 

[Martin]

Problem with the Volt Switch immunity is that M-Manectric and Rotom are the most common VS users in the tier (barring Thundurus, which wrecks you anyway).
And since we still want this thing to not be a suicide lead, having it weak to both of Talonflame's STABs as well as Ice still seems like a bad option.
Honestly the idea of getting away from Bug sounds pretty great (for instance a Dark-type spider, similar to Drapion's situation), but Bug-Ground just doesn't seem like a good defensive presence for what we want.
Also why are Bulldoze and Sand Tomb pros? Do people actually run those or do they just pad the move list?

I was just listing moves which have some kind of niche however small. Bulldoze for the speed drop (i guess that was stupid considering Sticky Web) and Sand Tomb for trapping (although on second thought Infestation would be better).

 

[Matt_192]

That's two weeks up, guys!

Thanks for all of your suggestions and it looks like there's a plethora of possible types we could use! I'll list out the possible types for each concept and you vote on which ones to go with!

Spoiler: Concept 1

Name: Sticky Web 2.0
Description of Concept: Effectively, this concept would allow for a Sticky Web Pokemon that is a) not a suicide lead and b) does not completely kill momentum.
Reason for Concept: Currently, in OU, there are only two real Sticky Web users: Smeargle and Shuckle (since Galvantula is kinda ass). A sticky web user that wouldn't be a suicide lead would really help the strategy in OU IMO, and it would allow teams to not have to run a suicide lead just to get up Sticky Web (and Stealth Rocks if you're lucky). By using this idea, we can also see what Pokemon rise up in a metagame with an increased emphasis on Speed Control.

Possible Types:

• Ground / Bug
• Dark / Poison
• Dark / Bug
• Rock / Bug
• Steel / Bug

Spoiler: Concept 2

Name: Trick Room Setter
Description of Concept: A trick room setter that could somehow improve the viability of trick room teams in the OU environment.
Reasons for Concept: Trick room in concept has always been incredibly interesting to me, but unfortunately with only 5 turns of trick room and some unfortunately mediocre setters for the OU environment, trick room teams have never really taken off. There are plenty of Pokemon already ready to abuse it (mega Mawile, mega Abamasnow, Escavalier, Dragalgae, etc), so all TR really needs is a little push in the support department to start making a relevant impact IMO.

Possible Types:

• Normal / Ghost
• Dark / Ghost
• Psychic / Dark

Please read the entire thread before voting to give yourselves an indication of the pros and cons of all the different typings.

The vote will stay open for 1 week - happy voting!

 

[Martin]

Concept 1: Bug-/Ground-
Concept 2: Normal-/Ghost-