Active Dooly Plz

[Krelbit]

Buyers, This issue does not involve you. However, if you're concerned, you can voice your distaste in the issue, or your support for the issue.

TLDR: Take a smaller cut of our sales pls. 33% too much.

The ratio of 1:3 for cashouts has gone on for quite a while. PC buyers may not feel the impact, but sellers who use this site really do feel it. We get 1 dollar for every 150 PC on the way out, and that money helps pay for the site. Now, it's been on this site for while, and I've been okay with it, but it means larger sales kind of get squandered for us. We have less motivation to make these sales because we know how much we're really going to make from them.

If a 10000 PC sale were made ($100 USD) We'd cash out and only get 66 dollars. The site takes a third of the money we earn. I understand that this site needs certain amounts of money to function at all, but our efforts kind of get wasted in all of this.

And I know that this site works as a very effective middleman as well. It's very safe to conduct transactions using a credit system with active moderators. That being said, the site does deserve some money. I just think 33% is too much.

Plus, paypal fees weigh in as well, and I know that it's not under your control, we get hit by that as well and end up making even less money than we've pooled our efforts into.

Going on....

I'd like to propose a slimmer cut on our cashouts, maybe to start, 120 pc to 1 dollar? That way, we could keep the minimum 1200 cashout, and you'd get about a 20% cut. I feel like you'd still earn enough to run the site, but we have no numbers at all so it'd be hard to know.

Thoughts pls. It'd also be nice if Dooly could shine a few numbers towards our way so we could work something out.

By numbers, I mean, profits made in a year, or total hosting costs. Stuff along those lines. Not total, disruptive transparency, but a bit of opacity to deter or justify my concern.

 

[Miles8088]

I agree with this as it makes negotiating with buyers extremely difficult. If your selling something worth 120 bucks the buyer is gonna pay 120 not 200 despite you needing 200 to achieve 120 after fees. I know it's not uncommon for sellers to get hit with fees on any other stage like shopping, host fees etc but I think the gap between what the buyer and seller sees is too large the way it stands. This deters large purchases on the site ultimately hurting the site and the sellers.

 

[Krelbit]

I agree with this as it makes negotiating with buyers extremely difficult. If your selling something worth 120 bucks the buyer is gonna pay 120 not 200 despite you needing 200 to achieve 120 after fees. I know it's not uncommon for sellers to get hit with fees on any other stage like shopping, host fees etc but I think the gap between what the buyer and seller sees is too large the way it stands. This deters large purchases on the site ultimately hurting the site and the sellers.

1) This doesn't deter large purchases, because buyers simply do not need to care about the cutoff ratios.

2) Most people don't know about the 150:1 PC ratio on the sellers, and why should they? We're here for their convenience, not to add extra guilt to the buyer. If the buyer gets a little guilty, they may spend an extra $5 or so to keep both parties happy, but I believe this results in a negative site experience for them, and having worked many, many business style (Aw yis that wally world flashback) part (Aw yis that amusement park flashback) time (Aw yis that panera flashback) jobs (Aw yis that kmart flashback) in my past , I can firmly attest to negative experiences repelling customers.

Pls thots dooly. I'll tag the other cool kids too. And also I'll tag chaos. It'd be nice to hear your opinion, as the largest seller on the site.

@doulie @KitaVonKanada @Cheza @Dom @Chaos

 

[Cheza]

I don't feel a need for change in the system... I haven't had any issues with the fee for cashing out and don't think it needs changing. It is how the site makes its money and always has been. Basing your prices around what you want to make can easily solve this issue.

Since I'm located in Canada and our dollar is lower atm the conversion rate actually gained me $30 extra than I was expecting the last time I cashed out. Thanks PayPal <3

 

[Yungfaux]

Base your prices on the 150pc = 1USD rule. Simple. You're not getting 33% of your earnings taken away because you never earned that 33%

Its not about guilting them into buying you dont even need to mention the conversion, just post your prices as what will earn you the amount you want.

This does not need to be changed. It keeps the economy functioning properly while allowing the site to run. The money that the site earns pays for it to stay afloat.

 

[Miles8088]

Base your prices on the 150pc = 1USD rule. Simple. You're not getting 33% of your earnings taken away because you never earned that 33%

Its not about guilting them into buying you dont even need to mention the conversion, just post your prices as what will earn you the amount you want.

This does not need to be changed. It keeps the economy functioning properly while allowing the site to run. The money that the site earns pays for it to stay afloat.

No doubt a conversion rate is necessary and like we both said we don't have a problem with it at all as we love the site but we are simply inquiring as to whether it could be altered slightly to encourage more sales. Ultimately it's up to doulie in the end and he has a right to make it whatever he wants it to be but I think Krel just wanted to bring this up.

 

[Cheza]

It could be altered slightly to encourage more sales.

By changing the conversion rate sales would not be effected, people would still be paying the same amount of money for Pokemon.

 

[Yungfaux]

To think about it this way, for basic business level domain and server hosting it could be costing US$132.50/year and that without knowing what Doulie's set-up is and with discounts and sales. So now think that if someone spends 100$ on credits and then cashes them out, they get theoretically ~$66.66. So that means that the site earns ~$33.33 right? Probably not, but lets work with that. That means that it would take $400 of credit purchases to cover the site for a year. Thats before taxes and further expenses such as forum add-ons and plugins.

Not only that but now you have to consider that this is Doulie's job. USA Federal minimum wage is 7.25/hour so assuming that Doulie works full time running the site and his company then you have $290/week (40h work week) so assuming Doulie only takes weekend breaks he would make $8,914/year. So to "cover" his living expenses (if he lives in a cheap apartment) it would take $26,745 of credit purchases.

To make minimum wage for a year and cover the domain expenses as mentioned before, it would be a total of $27,145 credit purchases.

As i've said before, this website is part of a business not a charity. This is someones job. They work to maintain the site. Its not like Doulie sits around raking in the cash, he is working in the background. Cashing you out, fixing bugs, developing new features, etc.

The only reason this site stays afloat is because there is that little bit that goes to the site over time.

Also remember that all of my values are theoretical. Its probably more expensive and less rewarding for Doulie. If you still think that the sites cut should be reduced so that you can earn more money then you learned nothing from this.

Unless you think that Doulie should work a job and run this site just so you can make a few extra cents without raising your prices?

 

[doulie]

To think about it this way, for basic business level domain and server hosting it could be costing US$132.50/year and that without knowing what Doulie's set-up is and with discounts and sales. So now think that if someone spends 100$ on credits and then cashes them out, they get theoretically ~$66.66. So that means that the site earns ~$33.33 right? Probably not, but lets work with that. That means that it would take $400 of credit purchases to cover the site for a year. Thats before taxes and further expenses such as forum add-ons and plugins.

Not only that but now you have to consider that this is Doulie's job. USA Federal minimum wage is 7.25/hour so assuming that Doulie works full time running the site and his company then you have $290/week (40h work week) so assuming Doulie only takes weekend breaks he would make $8,914/year. So to "cover" his living expenses (if he lives in a cheap apartment) it would take $26,745 of credit purchases.

To make minimum wage for a year and cover the domain expenses as mentioned before, it would be a total of $27,145 credit purchases.

As i've said before, this website is part of a business not a charity. This is someones job. They work to maintain the site. Its not like Doulie sits around raking in the cash, he is working in the background. Cashing you out, fixing bugs, developing new features, etc.

The only reason this site stays afloat is because there is that little bit that goes to the site over time.

Also remember that all of my values are theoretical. Its probably more expensive and less rewarding for Doulie. If you still think that the sites cut should be reduced so that you can earn more money then you learned nothing from this.

Unless you think that Doulie should work a job and run this site just so you can make a few extra cents without raising your prices?

This^

By changing the conversion rate sales would not be effected, people would still be paying the same amount of money for Pokemon.

and this^

Imagine if PP could support a staff, imagine if we could pay our admins and moderators. Imagine if we could support a marketing department of a few people who where paid to spend hundreds of hours a week getting the website out to the right people, and growing our customer base.

@Krelbit and any other seller who is concerned about making more money selling Pokemon, trying to cut the percentage the website gets is a very short term way of looking at things.

In fact a 50/50 cut with sellers and the website will probably be more appropriate to help us grow, and to help you make more money. Instead we take the bare minimum necessary to keep this place running and to allow us to allocate time towards maintaining/helping it grow. Not trying to play the sympathy card here, but it feels a bit like a slap in the face for all the work that goes into managing this place. All the mods and admins who WORK FOR FREE, myself included at times, to provide a safe environment for sellers to make money.

 

[Krelbit]

@Krelbit and any other seller who is concerned about making more money selling Pokemon, trying to cut the percentage the website gets it a very short term way of looking at things.

While I very well do love this site, and the community it provides, and can agree that a cut is necessary, the cut honestly deters us from making these larger sales as we begin to realize that we are in fact, losing quite a bit of money. If you're making just enough to hang on, or maybe pocketing 1-2 grand off the site every few so-n-so's, I can see why a slimmer cut would be unreasonable. I asked for a couple numbers in my original post and I guess if you are opposed to the cuts being smaller you don't seem to be pocketing very much money off of this in the first place, in which i retract my argument, however...

All the mods and admins who WORK FOR FREE, myself included at times, to provide a safe environment for sellers to make money.

This seems to be a bit of a petty sympathy card to play, as the mods and admins volunteer to work for free. I very much appreciate their efforts, but using them for free and then using them in an argument to keep money seems a bit redundant.

Also, by changing the conversion rates, you aren't encouraging the buyers to make more sales, but the sellers.

A nice day to you.

 

[Cheza]

the cut honestly deters us from making these larger sales as we begin to realize that we are in fact, losing quite a bit of money.

How does the cut deter you from making larger sales? The larger the sale you make the more money you get whether or not there is a cut...The cut only makes what you earn less if you're prices are set without the cut in mind.

The cut itself as you know though is in order to keep the place running, which allows you to make sales in the first place.

Selling more = more money, always.

you aren't encouraging the buyers to make more sales, but the sellers.

With what I just said in mind selling more = more money. If a seller wants more money they'll go out to find more sales. Selling on the site is a "side job" to sellers however and not how they make their living. It's a nice way to make some extra cash and an easy option for those who don't have time to breed for hours.

To doulie though this is his job and he has to take the time and money to keep the place running just like any other site. It's pretty shocking but websites take a lot more money than I even expected for stuff like server space.

 

[doulie]

I was pretty close to locking this thread but i think it will stay open a bit longer for anyone else who has a similar concern.

While I very well do love this site, and the community it provides, and can agree that a cut is necessary, the cut honestly deters us from making these larger sales as we begin to realize that we are in fact, losing quite a bit of money. If you're making just enough to hang on, or maybe pocketing 1-2 grand off the site every few so-n-so's, I can see why a slimmer cut would be unreasonable. I asked for a couple numbers in my original post and I guess if you are opposed to the cuts being smaller you don't seem to be pocketing very much money off of this in the first place, in which i retract my argument, however...

How are you losing money?
You see the money the website makes as money you've lost?

'Pocketing' money sounds a bit devious, as if someone is stealing or trying to grab money they shouldn't. And it implies to me that you do not understand that perfectpokemon.com didn't spontaneously pop into existence. Or that a single developer would easily charge $150 an hour for the type of work that goes into customizing a platform like this. Or that you won't hire a single developer for a project like PP if you wanted to launch it in any reasonable time frame.

It implies to me that you do not understand or appreciate that if the website was not maintained it would be overran by DDOSers and spammers in a matter of days, and offline in a month.

As for 'I asked for a couple numbers in my original post'

The reality is, this website operates at a major loss for me and my family. It cannot support me or my lifestyle. Currently its an investment

This seems to be a bit of a petty sympathy card to play, as the mods and admins volunteer to work for free. I very much appreciate their efforts, but using them for free and then using them in an argument to keep money seems a bit redundant.

Also, by changing the conversion rates, you aren't encouraging the buyers to make more sales, but the sellers.

So the work the admins and mods do is volunteer and they should not be paid for it, but the work you do as a seller is not? You can't see that, even if they are willing to volunteer, mods and admins would be able to do more for the website, and you would make more money if they were paid? I am trying to figure out if you are (a) trolling (b) 12 (c) can't see the bigger picture or (d) all of the above.

I've already addressed this in the post above, but i'll say it again here.

If as a seller you are concerned with the amount of money the website makes then you have a very short term way of looking at things. The website is not cutting into anything you are making. The value of credits after they are bought have nothing to do with the amount of sales you make in your shops. In fact credits/customers/shops and cashing out would not exist if the website was not here to house it all.

You will not make more money if they percentage for cashing out was increased, because there would be less customers here for you to sell to, more fraudulent sales and eventually no place for you to buy/sell at all.

By the way if my tone feels a bit harsh, its because i see your posts and response as being borderline disrespectful and in some ways attempting to undermine the credibility of what we are trying to build with Perfect Pokemon and the entire Wealthy Gamer concept. We are trying to create a place where gamers can make money and eventually a living doing what they love. There are far more effective ways to 'pocket' unearned money on the internet than to spend time creating, managing and marketing a place like this.

 

[Miles8088]

I was pretty close to locking this thread but i think it will stay open a bit longer for anyone else who has a similar concern.


How are you losing money?
You see the money the website makes as money you've lost?

'Pocketing' money sounds a bit devious, as if someone is stealing or trying to grab money they shouldn't. And it implies to me that you do not understand that perfectpokemon.com didn't spontaneously pop into existence. Or that a single developer would easily charge $150 an hour for the type of work that goes into customizing a platform like this. Or that you won't hire a single developer for a project like PP if you wanted to launch it in any reasonable time frame.

It implies to me that you do not understand or appreciate that if the website was not maintained it would be overran by DDOSers and spammers in a matter of days, and offline in a month.

As for 'I asked for a couple numbers in my original post'

The reality is, this website operates at a major loss for me and my family. It cannot support me or my lifestyle. Currently its an investment




So the work the admins and mods do is volunteer and they should not be paid for it, but the work you do as a seller is not? You can't see that, even if they are willing to volunteer, mods and admins would be able to do more for the website, and you would make more money if they were paid? I am trying to figure out if you are (a) trolling (b) 12 (c) can't see the bigger picture or (d) all of the above.

I've already addressed this in the post above, but i'll say it again here.

If as a seller you are concerned with the amount of money the website makes then you have a very short term way of looking at things. The website is not cutting into anything you are making. The value of credits after they are bought have nothing to do with the amount of sales you make in your shops. In fact credits/customers/shops and cashing out would not exist if the website was not here to house it all.

You will not make more money if they percentage for cashing out was increased, because there would be less customers here for you to sell to, more fraudulent sales and eventually no place for you to buy/sell at all.

By the way if my tone feels a bit harsh, its because i see your posts and response as being borderline disrespectful and in some ways attempting to undermine the credibility of what we are trying to build with Perfect Pokemon and the entire Wealthy Gamer concept. We are trying to create a place where gamers can make money and eventually a living doing what they love. There are far more effective ways to 'pocket' unearned money on the internet than to spend time creating, managing and marketing a place like this.

Im not sure how others would feel about it but I for one would certainly support a ratio change in favor of giving PP more to work with so that more projects could be started and finished. In addition as you said in this post marketing is another huge thing. Anyone, staff or not, who's tried to advertise for this site knows that its no easy task. I 100% agree that if we could all, as the current active core members of PP, view this site more as a project and less as a source of income for now, we could increase the quantity of members and the quality of the site itself. Quicker improvement on these fronts would eventually erase many "pc issues" that come up. In short, this along with 20 PC sellers could be fixed with more active members and more new members. To attain this we need to focus all our efforts in efficiently making the community the best we can as well as efficiently letting people know just how great it is. Doulie cant do this alone, we need all the staff as well as all the active members who care about this community and add to the suggestion threads to all pitch in so that this goal can be achieved. As individuals, if we know that as the core of the community everyone is working their hardest (that is allowed by their schedule) and progress is being made then we can do great things. What we cant have is those willing to work hard being deterred because they know that others are not as willing and that their work will be in vain. This community has a potential to be one of the least toxic, most tightly knit communities thatI have ever seen on a large scale. Dont let this potential go to waste. I will do my best from now on to do whatever it takes to help this site progress. I know many of you all are willing as well or have been already. Lets make this site even more special

(Sorry for the wall of text)

 

[Yungfaux]

I agree with this as it makes negotiating with buyers extremely difficult. If your selling something worth 120 bucks the buyer is gonna pay 120 not 200 despite you needing 200 to achieve 120 after fees. I know it's not uncommon for sellers to get hit with fees on any other stage like shopping, host fees etc but I think the gap between what the buyer and seller sees is too large the way it stands. This deters large purchases on the site ultimately hurting the site and the sellers.

What

 

[Miles8088]

What

The reason I posted again is to clarify that I would much rather the community improve and the ratio be 2:1 than it be lowered and the site struggle. As I clarified already in the sb I didn't think this was the worst idea in the world to bring up as others were talking about it and I have had some problems as far as negotiating bc of the ratio but now that I am aware of the information shared here this is my view. Not really sure why you'd point this out and just say what after talking in the sb