Johto Starters with Hidden Abilities coming soon!

It has recently been announced that the Johto starters - Meganium, Typhlosion and Feraligatr - will be receiving their long anticipated Hidden Abilities: Leaf Guard, Flash Fire and Sheer Force respectively. If you access PokeBank between February 27th and November 30th 2015, you can receive all three of these Pokemon. This will be available for both XY and ORAS, although keep in mind that this is limited to one per bank.

Speaking from a competitive aspect, this will definitely be an amazing addition to Feraligatr and Typhlosion, but Meganium not so much. Sheer Force will allow DD Life Orb Feraligatr to be hilariously strong, so I see that moving up to UU. Typhlosion is now quite good in RU, so I forsee it moving back up after the drop to NU it had during X and Y. Finally, Meganium didn't benefit that much really, although unfortunate.

In terms of pre-evolutions, they all get the same Hidden Abilities, so I forsee Croconaw moving to S Rank NFE, if not, it may be suspect tested for PU. This is the really notable mention IMO, although Quilava seems to benefit from being able to switch in on Will-o-Wisps and other fire moves now.

What do you guys think of the announcement though? I have been anticipating this release for a long time now, and I hope to see more of them in action

 

[ericashes]

I really was looking for cooler abilities to make all starters at least UU

 

[Martin]

I really was looking for cooler abilities to make all starters at least UU

Unless it got Wonder Guard (lel) no ability was going to improve Meganium tbh. It is just that bad.

As for the others, these are huge buffs that will definitely send them up one tier: if not two. Feraligatr is almost certainly going to go to UU now while I expect Typhlosion to go to RU due to it having a legitimate niche over Delphox, Moltres and Pyroar in the tier (Delphox being better than Typhlosion in every way pre-Flash Fire, Moltres hits harder outside of full-health scenarios, can run an effective SubToxic set and can switch in on EarthQuake and Pyroar is a hard counter to Doublade due to its Ghost-type immunity), and gaining Flash Fire makes it an incredible switch in for Will-O-Wisps, Fire Blasts etc. as well as powering up its Eruptions/Fire Blasts when switching in on said moves. This is huge.

 

[ericashes]

Unless it got Wonder Guard (lel) no ability was going to improve Meganium tbh. It is just that bad.

As for the others, these are huge buffs that will definitely send them up one tier: if not two. Feraligatr is almost certainly going to go to UU now while I expect Typhlosion to go to RU due to it having a legitimate niche over Delphox, Moltres and Pyroar in the tier (Delphox being better than Typhlosion in every way pre-Flash Fire, Moltres hits harder outside of full-health scenarios, can run an effective SubToxic set and can switch in on EarthQuake and Pyroar is a hard counter to Doublade due to its Ghost-type immunity), and gaining Flash Fire makes it an incredible switch in for Will-O-Wisps, Fire Blasts etc. as well as powering up its Eruptions/Fire Blasts when switching in on said moves. This is huge.

I mean I guess...but I was just waiting for some pokemon with stellar hidden abilities sending them to OU

 

[Matt_192]

I mean I guess...but I was just waiting for some pokemon with stellar hidden abilities sending them to OU

We kinda already knew the Hidden Abilities though - it was highly unlikely that they were going to be changing.

 

[ericashes]

We kinda already knew the Hidden Abilities though - it was highly unlikely that they were going to be changing.

Is there a site you use to find all this news out?

 

[Matt_192]

Is there a site you use to find all this news out?

Serebii mainly

 

[notsoclutch]

I mean I guess...but I was just waiting for some pokemon with stellar hidden abilities sending them to OU

Sheer force isnt amazing for a wallbreaker?

 

[ericashes]

Sheer force isnt amazing for a wallbreaker?

i mean :/ its OKAY

 

[Matt_192]

i mean :/ its OKAY

The heck? Sheer Force is amazing on Feraligatr and on any wallbreaker. That, with the power of Life Orb, Dragon Dance/Swords Dance and a pretty amazing movepool decimates UU pretty quickly. I'm gonna run some calcs, cause it might be voted BL (at least on Smogon)

 

[ericashes]

The heck? Sheer Force is amazing on Feraligatr and on any wallbreaker. That, with the power of Life Orb, Dragon Dance/Swords Dance and a pretty amazing movepool decimates UU pretty quickly. I'm gonna run some calcs, cause it might be voted BL (at least on Smogon)

BL!?!?!?!?! im thinking ru

 

[Matt_192]

BL!?!?!?!?! im thinking ru

Right, let's check the walls in RU shall we?

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Crunch vs. 252 HP / 160+ Def Amoonguss: 252-298 (58.3 - 68.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery - Cannot switch in successfully after a Swords Dance (more of a shaky example)

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aromatisse: 497-586 (122.4 - 144.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO - SpDef is OHKO'ed on switch in by SD variants

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Bronzong: 447-528 (132.2 - 156.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO - Pretty obvious here

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Bronzong: 330-390 (97.6 - 115.3%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO - OHKO's for definite after an Aqua Jet

0 Atk Bronzong Earthquake vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 66-78 (20.3 - 24%) -- guaranteed 5HKO

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Crunch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 281-333 (88 - 104.3%) -- 25% chance to OHKO - OHKO's with Aqua Jet. Granted, this is a good check, as it can nullify Sheer Force, but either way...

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 322-382 (72.5 - 86%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery - Seriously? That's insane.

0 SpA Cresselia Psyshock vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 67-81 (20.6 - 24.9%) -- guaranteed 5HKO

252+ Atk Fletchinder Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 135-160 (41.5 - 49.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO - I don't need to really calc the returning damage

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Jellicent: 678-801 (167.8 - 198.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO - Again, pretty obvious

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Feraligatr Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Registeel: 343-406 (94.2 - 111.5%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO - 2HKO, Regi only really runs Seismic toss so that's still a ~3HKO

Those are the main walls of the tier, and it OHKO's or 2HKO's everything in the tier. I doubt it will be banned from UU, but I have no doubt that it will be banned from RU.

 

[ericashes]

Right, let's check the walls in RU shall we?

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Crunch vs. 252 HP / 160+ Def Amoonguss: 252-298 (58.3 - 68.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery - Cannot switch in successfully after a Swords Dance (more of a shaky example)

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aromatisse: 497-586 (122.4 - 144.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO - SpDef is OHKO'ed on switch in by SD variants

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Bronzong: 447-528 (132.2 - 156.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO - Pretty obvious here

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Bronzong: 330-390 (97.6 - 115.3%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO - OHKO's for definite after an Aqua Jet

0 Atk Bronzong Earthquake vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 66-78 (20.3 - 24%) -- guaranteed 5HKO

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Crunch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 281-333 (88 - 104.3%) -- 25% chance to OHKO - OHKO's with Aqua Jet. Granted, this is a good check, as it can nullify Sheer Force, but either way...

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 322-382 (72.5 - 86%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery - Seriously? That's insane.

0 SpA Cresselia Psyshock vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 67-81 (20.6 - 24.9%) -- guaranteed 5HKO

252+ Atk Fletchinder Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 135-160 (41.5 - 49.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO - I don't need to really calc the returning damage

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Jellicent: 678-801 (167.8 - 198.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO - Again, pretty obvious

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Feraligatr Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Registeel: 343-406 (94.2 - 111.5%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO - 2HKO, Regi only really runs Seismic toss so that's still a ~3HKO

Those are the main walls of the tier, and it OHKO's or 2HKO's everything in the tier. I doubt it will be banned from UU, but I have no doubt that it will be banned from RU.

you went through all that for me xD

 

[notsoclutch]

Right, let's check the walls in RU shall we?

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Crunch vs. 252 HP / 160+ Def Amoonguss: 252-298 (58.3 - 68.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery - Cannot switch in successfully after a Swords Dance (more of a shaky example)

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aromatisse: 497-586 (122.4 - 144.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO - SpDef is OHKO'ed on switch in by SD variants

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Bronzong: 447-528 (132.2 - 156.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO - Pretty obvious here

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Bronzong: 330-390 (97.6 - 115.3%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO - OHKO's for definite after an Aqua Jet

0 Atk Bronzong Earthquake vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 66-78 (20.3 - 24%) -- guaranteed 5HKO

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Crunch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 281-333 (88 - 104.3%) -- 25% chance to OHKO - OHKO's with Aqua Jet. Granted, this is a good check, as it can nullify Sheer Force, but either way...

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 322-382 (72.5 - 86%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery - Seriously? That's insane.

0 SpA Cresselia Psyshock vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 67-81 (20.6 - 24.9%) -- guaranteed 5HKO

252+ Atk Fletchinder Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 135-160 (41.5 - 49.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO - I don't need to really calc the returning damage

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Jellicent: 678-801 (167.8 - 198.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO - Again, pretty obvious

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Feraligatr Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Registeel: 343-406 (94.2 - 111.5%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO - 2HKO, Regi only really runs Seismic toss so that's still a ~3HKO

Those are the main walls of the tier, and it OHKO's or 2HKO's everything in the tier. I doubt it will be banned from UU, but I have no doubt that it will be banned from RU.

Not to mention that Ferraligatr can also run ice punch.
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 160+ Def Amoonguss: 523-616 (121 - 142.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

O.O

 

[Matt_192]

Not to mention that Ferraligatr can also run ice punch.
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 160+ Def Amoonguss: 523-616 (121 - 142.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

O.O

^ Forgot about this, was discussing Ice Punch in the call but it never worked the way into my calcs

 

[Martin]

Right, let's check the walls in RU shall we?

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Crunch vs. 252 HP / 160+ Def Amoonguss: 252-298 (58.3 - 68.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery - Cannot switch in successfully after a Swords Dance (more of a shaky example)

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aromatisse: 497-586 (122.4 - 144.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO - SpDef is OHKO'ed on switch in by SD variants

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Bronzong: 447-528 (132.2 - 156.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO - Pretty obvious here

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Bronzong: 330-390 (97.6 - 115.3%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO - OHKO's for definite after an Aqua Jet

0 Atk Bronzong Earthquake vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 66-78 (20.3 - 24%) -- guaranteed 5HKO

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Crunch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 281-333 (88 - 104.3%) -- 25% chance to OHKO - OHKO's with Aqua Jet. Granted, this is a good check, as it can nullify Sheer Force, but either way...

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 322-382 (72.5 - 86%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery - Seriously? That's insane.

0 SpA Cresselia Psyshock vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 67-81 (20.6 - 24.9%) -- guaranteed 5HKO

252+ Atk Fletchinder Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 135-160 (41.5 - 49.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO - I don't need to really calc the returning damage

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Jellicent: 678-801 (167.8 - 198.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO - Again, pretty obvious

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Feraligatr Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Registeel: 343-406 (94.2 - 111.5%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO - 2HKO, Regi only really runs Seismic toss so that's still a ~3HKO

Those are the main walls of the tier, and it OHKO's or 2HKO's everything in the tier. I doubt it will be banned from UU, but I have no doubt that it will be banned from RU.

That fletch calc doesn't factor in the fact that it could just as easily be at +2 or that have burned Feraligatr on switch-in (u didn't have a calc for it vs fletch (even post-burn), but just thought I'd point out that it would v. rarely switch in on fletch).

 

[ericashes]

Sorry to bump this but I have gone 180 on this one. Anyone know if you can get hacked fera that work in wifi?