Active [CAP] Stall God [QC Approved 2/2]

[Martin]

Name: Stall God
Description of Concept: A Pokémon can singlehandedly carry stall and semi-stall teams on its back while alleviating issues towards the playstyle regarding offense.
Reasons for Concept: ATM, Stall is argubly the least effective playstyle in the metagame. This is due to a number of very anti-stall Pokemon such as Sub+CM Keldeo and Landorus-I being very commonplace in the metagame, as well as the prevalent offensive playstyles shredding it apart. So the idea behind this is to find a way to increase the viability of stall as a playstyle, and the best way to do that is to introduce a Pokémon which can carry stall, in the same way that Politoed does for rain. This pokemon should also act as a cornerstone that allows the playstyle to handle more heavily offense-oriented teams - i.e. the main downfall of stall. Another issue to the playstyle is Item Clause, so this pokemon should be able to function in a way that alleviates this issue for other members of the team, such as being able to work effectively without an item.

 

[Loli-Shark]

Tbh, I don't think that stall is an issue in the meta, people can quite easily and competently run stall teams without much issue. Going from my experience, I can stall out games really easily, once stalling out a 6-0 win with a Gliscor, similarly with a Alomomola (and yes, that was in OU). Sableye can do this well, so can a murkrow with perish-lite. Chansey can do this again provided the seismic toss is a thing as it has enough defences if assigned accordingly. You have Clefable that can do this, an OU variant of Sigilyph and a number of other things that all can stall perfectly fine. A pokemon that can 'stall' but take hits from the pokemon you state, (Keldeo and Lando-I) is already there, if you were to make a similar pokemon, it would have mad defences and/or the ability to hit hard but still stall, and I feel that that would move it into a more frequently used pokemon for OU, perhaps make it powerful enough to be banned in the tier.

 

[Matt_192]

Tbh, I don't think that stall is an issue in the meta, people can quite easily and competently run stall teams without much issue. Going from my experience, I can stall out games really easily, once stalling out a 6-0 win with a Gliscor, similarly with a Alomomola (and yes, that was in OU). Sableye can do this well, so can a murkrow with perish-lite. Chansey can do this again provided the seismic toss is a thing as it has enough defences if assigned accordingly. You have Clefable that can do this, an OU variant of Sigilyph and a number of other things that all can stall perfectly fine. A pokemon that can 'stall' but take hits from the pokemon you state, (Keldeo and Lando-I) is already there, if you were to make a similar pokemon, it would have mad defences and/or the ability to hit hard but still stall, and I feel that that would move it into a more frequently used pokemon for OU, perhaps make it powerful enough to be banned in the tier.

The main issue behind full stall teams is Item Clause, as it really prevents two things: a) how many bulky Pokemon you can run effectively and b) how many actually good stally items are there.

If we were going to choose this concept, it would be relatively clear that we would have to balance its Base Stat numbers. Also, I'm a little confused why you say making a Pokemon that could carry stall teams would get it banned. Chansey exists, and is basically found on every single stall team under the sun but isn't even close to being banned.

 

[Loli-Shark]

The main issue behind full stall teams is Item Clause, as it really prevents two things: a) how many bulky Pokemon you can run effectively and b) how many actually good stally items are there.

If we were going to choose this concept, it would be relatively clear that we would have to balance its Base Stat numbers. Also, I'm a little confused why you say making a Pokemon that could carry stall teams would get it banned. Chansey exists, and is basically found on every single stall team under the sun but isn't even close to being banned.

Chansey is quite easily dealt with though, in my opinion. Maybe I phrased it wrong XD I think what I was trying to say is that if you were to have a more permanent staller, one that can outclass the likes of a Gliscor, or a Chansey, or a Sableye, then it would need better stats, one with more of a total than 510 (Gliscor, who is arguably the best staller in OU). I dunno, maybe I'm just iffy that one of my playstyles is being called 'least effective in the metagame' because I can run it perfectly fine without much issue, whilst still having offensive pivots that double up as stallers. I just feel that to create a pokemon that can outclass a Gliscor, which (correct me if I'm wrong) is going to most likely move it to the near top of the tier, would just be a push too far. I mean, you can get an effective staller with 380 base stats with a life orb

 

[Matt_192]

Chansey is quite easily dealt with though, in my opinion. Maybe I phrased it wrong XD I think what I was trying to say is that if you were to have a more permanent staller, one that can outclass the likes of a Gliscor, or a Chansey, or a Sableye, then it would need better stats, one with more of a total than 510 (Gliscor, who is arguably the best staller in OU). I dunno, maybe I'm just iffy that one of my playstyles is being called 'least effective in the metagame' because I can run it perfectly fine without much issue, whilst still having offensive pivots that double up as stallers. I just feel that to create a pokemon that can outclass a Gliscor, which (correct me if I'm wrong) is going to most likely move it to the near top of the tier, would just be a push too far. I mean, you can get an effective staller with 380 base stats with a life orb

Gliscor definitely isn't the most effective staller in OU, lol. Due to the amount of CroCune, Azumarill, Keldeo, Ice type moves in general, Mega Gyarados, Manaphy, Mega Slowbro, [insert many more bulky water types here], Ice Punch Mega Lopunny, Mega Venusaur, etc, Gliscor can be checked on most teams without even thinking about it. Sure, Gliscor is solid A-rank, but it definitely has checks. If anything, a better example would have been Clefable.

The main issue with stall is Item Clause, like I said, and it's difficult to win most of your stall matches in a meta where you're forced to run some sub-par items to actually finish your team. This is why semi-stall and bulky offence are pretty good ways to build your team on PP as you aren't limited to the extreme by Item Clause. As Clefable and Gliscor roam the meta as very good stall options, I think @Marigi174 is trying to create another option alongside those that isn't overly effected by Item Clause. This allows for combinations like [Stall God], Clefable, Gliscor and Chansey to become a viable strategy, as they can all run separate items (if you get what I'm saying).

 

[Loli-Shark]

Gliscor definitely isn't the most effective staller in OU, lol. Due to the amount of CroCune, Azumarill, Keldeo, Ice type moves in general, Mega Gyarados, Manaphy, Mega Slowbro, [insert many more bulky water types here], Ice Punch Mega Lopunny, Mega Venusaur, etc, Gliscor can be checked on most teams without even thinking about it. Sure, Gliscor is solid A-rank, but it definitely has checks. If anything, a better example would have been Clefable.

The main issue with stall is Item Clause, like I said, and it's difficult to win most of your stall matches in a meta where you're forced to run some sub-par items to actually finish your team. This is why semi-stall and bulky offence are pretty good ways to build your team on PP as you aren't limited to the extreme by Item Clause. As Clefable and Gliscor roam the meta as very good stall options, I think @Marigi174 is trying to create another option alongside those that isn't overly effected by Item Clause. This allows for combinations like [Stall God], Clefable, Gliscor and Chansey to become a viable strategy, as they can all run separate items (if you get what I'm saying).

Well, if you look at the most defensive pokemon in the whole game, 24 of them have weaknesses to ice or water. Special defence wise, only 15 are weak to water or ice. I may be projecting stats wrong, but it'd have to have maybes 120 or higher special defence (Mega Saur), 131 defence (Ferrothorn) and 110 or more health (Excadrill). It doesn't really leave much else in terms of base stats to be able to turn it into a decent offensive pivot. Then, these moves which are there to keep you alive:

Spoiler

Heals dirctly

• Roost
• Slack Off
• Synthesis
• Recover
• Softboiled
• Moonlight
• Milk Drink
• Morning Sun
• Heal Order

Heals over turns

• Aqua Ring
• Ingrain

Absorbs health from opponent

• Giga Drain
• Mega Drain
• Absorb
• Horn Leech
• Drain Punch
• Leech Life

Heals opponents and allies

• Heal Pulse (opponents or allies only)
• Present (may damage, may heal)

Others

• Pain Split (when you have lower health than opponents)
• Swallow (after Stockpile)
• Wish (after a turn)
• Rest (puts you to Sleep however)
• Leech Seed (saps opponent's health)
• Dream Eater (when opponent is asleep)
• Lunar Dance (kills you, but heals switch-in)
• Healing Wish (kills you, but heals switch-in)

Then of course you have your toxic, or your confusion, or your burn, or whirlpool or whatever. Limits to one or two moves that will allow you to make it that pivot. Then typing becomes an issue, because you either have to run a normal type, a water/grass type, a psychic type or maybe a fighting type for drain punch. Ghost type would work too, but ghost types are usually offensive, dusknoir being the only notable difference outside of the ubers tier.

 

[Matt_192]

Well, if you look at the most defensive pokemon in the whole game, 24 of them have weaknesses to ice or water. Special defence wise, only 15 are weak to water or ice. I may be projecting stats wrong, but it'd have to have maybes 120 or higher special defence (Mega Saur), 131 defence (Ferrothorn) and 110 or more health (Excadrill). It doesn't really leave much else in terms of base stats to be able to turn it into a decent offensive pivot. Then, these moves which are there to keep you alive:

Spoiler

Heals dirctly

• Roost
• Slack Off
• Synthesis
• Recover
• Softboiled
• Moonlight
• Milk Drink
• Morning Sun
• Heal Order

Heals over turns

• Aqua Ring
• Ingrain

Absorbs health from opponent

• Giga Drain
• Mega Drain
• Absorb
• Horn Leech
• Drain Punch
• Leech Life

Heals opponents and allies

• Heal Pulse (opponents or allies only)
• Present (may damage, may heal)

Others

• Pain Split (when you have lower health than opponents)
• Swallow (after Stockpile)
• Wish (after a turn)
• Rest (puts you to Sleep however)
• Leech Seed (saps opponent's health)
• Dream Eater (when opponent is asleep)
• Lunar Dance (kills you, but heals switch-in)
• Healing Wish (kills you, but heals switch-in)

Then of course you have your toxic, or your confusion, or your burn, or whirlpool or whatever. Limits to one or two moves that will allow you to make it that pivot. Then typing becomes an issue, because you either have to run a normal type, a water/grass type, a psychic type or maybe a fighting type for drain punch. Ghost type would work too, but ghost types are usually offensive, dusknoir being the only notable difference outside of the ubers tier.

I really don't understand what your point is here. A 'stall god' would be able to utilize both defences decently with good, defensive typing and viable recovery. I'm not saying you have to resist every single move in the game, but I'm just saying that a weakness to two of the most common moves in the game (Scald and part of the BoltBeam combo) doesn't bode well.

 

[Martin]

@Loli-Shark

I've been looking through the thread, and it is pretty clear that you don't really understand how to use stall. Stall shouldn't need to runn offensive 'mons and pivots because it is supposed to be a passive playstyle. If you start running offensive or bulky pivots, it becomes defense, bulky offense, balance or semi-stall. This is the problem. The aim is to carry a very passive playstyle on the back of something which gives said playstyle room to function by blanket checking threats to stall or carrying the playstyle on its back. With this, I want to be able to see teams that look like [Stall God]+defensive M-Sableye+SubToxic Aegislash+Chansey/Blissey+two passive fillers, and on that team (assuming that Stall God doesn't have much offensive presence) SubToxic Aegislash is the only thing which is going to be running any offensive presence because it is still relying mostly on Toxic to wear down its main switch-ins like Mandibuzz, and it just means that the team isn't a complete sitting duck v.s. balance. That is what a stall team should aim to look like, as otherwise it becomes a playstyle coctail - which this concept is aiming not to be.

@Matt_192 have you come to a decision with this concept yet, or do you want a little more discussion before you make one?

 

[Matt_192]

@Loli-Shark

I've been looking through the thread, and it is pretty clear that you don't really understand how to use stall. Stall shouldn't need to runn offensive 'mons and pivots because it is supposed to be a passive playstyle. If you start running offensive or bulky pivots, it becomes defense, bulky offense, balance or semi-stall. This is the problem. The aim is to carry a very passive playstyle on the back of something which gives said playstyle room to function by blanket checking threats to stall or carrying the playstyle on its back. With this, I want to be able to see teams that look like [Stall God]+defensive M-Sableye+SubToxic Aegislash+Chansey/Blissey+two passive fillers, and on that team (assuming that Stall God doesn't have much offensive presence) SubToxic Aegislash is the only thing which is going to be running any offensive presence because it is still relying mostly on Toxic to wear down its main switch-ins like Mandibuzz, and it just means that the team isn't a complete sitting duck v.s. balance. That is what a stall team should aim to look like, as otherwise it becomes a playstyle coctail - which this concept is aiming not to be.

@Matt_192 have you come to a decision with this concept yet, or do you want a little more discussion before you make one?

I'm wanting a little bit more discussion tbh, we seem to have gone off on a tangent about the issues with Item Clause etc lol.

 

[Loli-Shark]

I really don't understand what your point is here. A 'stall god' would be able to utilize both defences decently with good, defensive typing and viable recovery. I'm not saying you have to resist every single move in the game, but I'm just saying that a weakness to two of the most common moves in the game (Scald and part of the BoltBeam combo) doesn't bode well.

Jeez, I need to make points clearer XD Right, so say it'd have to be water/grass, for the ability to take neutral from ice, which is commonplace due to ice beam, ice punch etc. It can also take water moves easily so it can't get scalded. It can't go to sleep with sleep powder. All these are great. It can use leech seed, scald, synthesis, toxic, sleep powder, giga drain etc. But it'd have to have higher defences than venusaur right, because venusaur is as good to stopping ice and water (and fire) due to the typing and thick fat. Defences the same, as ferrothorn would be just as good to use, so it needs high defences. HP wise, who knows, I've seen stally amoongus but not so frequently. I'm just trying to say, the base stats would have to be quite high if it was to compete with anything else in the tier (at least, for this typing, haven't researched others).

 

[Loli-Shark]

@Loli-Shark

I've been looking through the thread, and it is pretty clear that you don't really understand how to use stall. Stall shouldn't need to runn offensive 'mons and pivots because it is supposed to be a passive playstyle. If you start running offensive or bulky pivots, it becomes defense, bulky offense, balance or semi-stall. This is the problem. The aim is to carry a very passive playstyle on the back of something which gives said playstyle room to function by blanket checking threats to stall or carrying the playstyle on its back. With this, I want to be able to see teams that look like [Stall God]+defensive M-Sableye+SubToxic Aegislash+Chansey/Blissey+two passive fillers, and on that team (assuming that Stall God doesn't have much offensive presence) SubToxic Aegislash is the only thing which is going to be running any offensive presence because it is still relying mostly on Toxic to wear down its main switch-ins like Mandibuzz, and it just means that the team isn't a complete sitting duck v.s. balance. That is what a stall team should aim to look like, as otherwise it becomes a playstyle coctail - which this concept is aiming not to be.

@Matt_192 have you come to a decision with this concept yet, or do you want a little more discussion before you make one?

Yeah, I made a dumb, I misread it saying 'handle offensive teams' and though it meant to be able to be used in offensive teams as well, my bad XD but some of the points still stand, like the stats, because in OU we do have good alternatives, like ferro or mega saur. Maybe I'm just looking too far ahead, I think it's a good idea, just slightly difficult to be able to match up with similar types and the like

 

[Matt_192]

Jeez, I need to make points clearer XD Right, so say it'd have to be water/grass, for the ability to take neutral from ice, which is commonplace due to ice beam, ice punch etc. It can also take water moves easily so it can't get scalded. It can't go to sleep with sleep powder. All these are great. It can use leech seed, scald, synthesis, toxic, sleep powder, giga drain etc. But it'd have to have higher defences than venusaur right, because venusaur is as good to stopping ice and water (and fire) due to the typing and thick fat. Defences the same, as ferrothorn would be just as good to use, so it needs high defences. HP wise, who knows, I've seen stally amoongus but not so frequently. I'm just trying to say, the base stats would have to be quite high if it was to compete with anything else in the tier (at least, for this typing, haven't researched others).

Well this concept already has one big niche over Mega Venusaur (I'm not counting standard Venusaur as regular bulky Venusaur is pretty ass) in that it doesn't require a mega slot. Ferrothorn would also work differently from what I can make out - Ferro isn't a stall god, it's a hazard setter and physical wall - there's a difference. And whilst, yes, Amoonguss is good, it is another one of those stally Pokemon weak to BoltBeam.

 

[Loli-Shark]

Well this concept already has one big niche over Mega Venusaur (I'm not counting standard Venusaur as regular bulky Venusaur is pretty ass) in that it doesn't require a mega slot. Ferrothorn would also work differently from what I can make out - Ferro isn't a stall god, it's a hazard setter and physical wall - there's a difference. And whilst, yes, Amoonguss is good, it is another one of those stally Pokemon weak to BoltBeam.

Yeah, you could prolly run a mega audino to help the stall getting rid of them mega saur slot. I dunno exactly about ferrothorn, I've seen quite a lot that run spikes, leech seed, protect, toxic. It ain't no fun to be against XD Really, to remove weakness to boltbeam, you need a grass/water type. Or you use a psychic type, but that removes the ability to take many physical attacks, seeing as they usually are specially orientated. Normal type would be ok, but you already have blissey (If we go off Marigi's team idea). No ghosts as you have mega sableye (or even regular sableye) and aegislash.

 

[Martin]

Jeez, I need to make points clearer XD Right, so say it'd have to be water/grass, for the ability to take neutral from ice, which is commonplace due to ice beam, ice punch etc. It can also take water moves easily so it can't get scalded. It can't go to sleep with sleep powder. All these are great. It can use leech seed, scald, synthesis, toxic, sleep powder, giga drain etc. But it'd have to have higher defences than venusaur right, because venusaur is as good to stopping ice and water (and fire) due to the typing and thick fat. Defences the same, as ferrothorn would be just as good to use, so it needs high defences. HP wise, who knows, I've seen stally amoongus but not so frequently. I'm just trying to say, the base stats would have to be quite high if it was to compete with anything else in the tier (at least, for this typing, haven't researched others).

TBH, while at this stage we shouldn't go too in-depth about possible typing, I don't think that Water-/Grass- would be the right way to go about it. With many stall teams carrying things like Heatran, I feel like an Ice-type neutrality is that called for. I feel like a bigger issue would be something which is capable of absorbing Ground-/Flying-type coverage. With defensive balloontran being ass (srs people only use this offensively), I feel like something that is capable of taking advantage of things like Talonflame and Landorus-T's attacks would be the best way to go about it.

Yeah, you could prolly run a mega audino to help the stall getting rid of them mega saur slot. I dunno exactly about ferrothorn, I've seen quite a lot that run spikes, leech seed, protect, toxic. It ain't no fun to be against XD Really, to remove weakness to boltbeam, you need a grass/water type. Or you use a psychic type, but that removes the ability to take many physical attacks, seeing as they usually are specially orientated. Normal type would be ok, but you already have blissey (If we go off Marigi's team idea). No ghosts as you have mega sableye (or even regular sableye) and aegislash.

For god's sake don't use Mega Audino. It is absolutely abysmal and the sheer fact that you can't use any of Mega Sableye, Mega Venusaur or bulky Zard-X means that the opportunity cost is off the scales.

 

[Loli-Shark]

TBH, while at this stage we shouldn't go too in-depth about possible typing, I don't think that Water-/Grass- would be the right way to go about it. With many stall teams carrying things like Heatran, I feel like an Ice-type neutrality is that called for. I feel like a bigger issue would be something which is capable of absorbing Ground-/Flying-type coverage. With defensive balloontran being ass (srs people only use this offensively), I feel like something that is capable of taking advantage of things like Talonflame and Landorus-T's attacks would be the best way to go about it.

For god's sake don't use Mega Audino. It is absolutely abysmal and the sheer fact that you can't use any of Mega Sableye, Mega Venusaur or bulky Zard-X means that the opportunity cost is off the scales.

Boom, we got ourselves a better Skarmory (Not sarcastic at all. It'd be nice to see another better steel flying). Then again, fire weakness... I dunno, the typing will be a bit difficult to juggle, like, grass or bug to take the ground hits, then you need the removal of fire/flying weakness otherwise it'll be shat on by talonflame,(EDIT: Bug rock maybes?) but yeah, maybe too soon. Mega Audino is actually pretty powerful, not lying, it really is good when used properly, but maybe the removal of mega sableye would be an issue. It does work non-mega sableye though

 

[Martin]

Boom, we got ourselves a better Skarmory (Not sarcastic at all. It'd be nice to see another better steel flying). Then again, fire weakness... I dunno, the typing will be a bit difficult to juggle, like, grass or bug to take the ground hits, then you need the removal of fire/flying weakness otherwise it'll be shat on by talonflame, but yeah, maybe too soon. Mega Audino is actually pretty powerful, not lying, it really is good when used properly, but maybe the removal of mega sableye would be an issue. It does work non-mega sableye though

Mega Audino is still the worst mega for singles in the game due to Normal literally negating the main draw to Fairy aside from the dragon immunity (Fighting-type resistance) and its literally useless ability. This gives it insane opportunity cost and very poor synergy with a lot of the things that Fairies pair well with.

Anyway, to ensure that we don't go on a tangent about Mega Audino I am going to ask @Matt_192 for permission to ban its discussion in this thread.

Now, back on topic. I forgot about Skarmory, and it is rather common on stall atm. Maybe thinking about types is less important and thinking about how it could blanket some of offense's main 'mons - such as Talonflame, Lando-T (cause Lando-I will still shred stall anyway), Keldeo and M-Lopunny - is the best way to go about this. It doesn't need to counter them: it just needs to be able to alleviate the problems regarding stall's matchup v.s. offense while still carrying it and helping to patch up problems such as item clause and matchup.

 

[Loli-Shark]

Mega Audino is still the worst mega for singles in the game due to Normal literally negating the main draw to Fairy aside from the dragon immunity (Fighting-type resistance) and its literally useless ability. This gives it insane opportunity cost and very poor synergy with a lot of the things that Fairies pair well with.

Anyway, to ensure that we don't go on a tangent about Mega Audino I am going to ask @Matt_192 for permission to ban its discussion in this thread.

Now, back on topic. I forgot about Skarmory, and it is rather common on stall atm. Maybe thinking about types is less important and thinking about how it could blanket some of offense's main 'mons - such as Talonflame, Lando-T (cause Lando-I will still shred stall anyway), Keldeo and M-Lopunny - is the best way to go about this. It doesn't need to counter them: it just needs to be able to alleviate the problems regarding stall's matchup v.s. offense while still carrying it and helping to patch up problems such as item clause and matchup.

So a more defensive orientated poke, but can still take a +1 hydro pump or secret sword, with the ability to have enough health regen that lefties would provide... seems fun to play around with :3 Talonflame is an issue because of gale wings, but really it hasn't much attack without life orb or choice band, so it'd have to be able to monopolise on that... keldeo is usually scarfed, but it needs to be able to take a +1 hydro at least decently enough... mega bunny just shreds most things a new butthole... yeah, this is gonna be very fun to play around with if/when it becomes a thing.

 

[Matt_192]

I'm agreed with @Marigi174 - let's keep things OU related. I don't mind discussion, but raising points like Mega Audino in OU is just invalid.

 

[Martin]

So a more defensive orientated poke, but can still take a +1 hydro pump or secret sword, with the ability to have enough health regen that lefties would provide... seems fun to play around with :3 Talonflame is an issue because of gale wings, but really it hasn't much attack without life orb or choice band, so it'd have to be able to monopolise on that... keldeo is usually scarfed, but it needs to be able to take a +1 hydro at least decently enough... mega bunny just shreds most things a new butthole... yeah, this is gonna be very fun to play around with if/when it becomes a thing.

Well, most Keldeo nowadays are actually SubCM, and that set just flat out beats stall barring Haze, Unaware and Phazing, so something that can beat that will be an absolute must. Also, I could see it having multiple abilities - maybe Unaware and Regen or something? IDK, but this kind of thing would open the way for it to fit onto more teams and maximise the experimentation with the concept. As for Talon, the sets that we need to be the most aware of is Itemless/Sharp Beak SD Talon with Acrobatics/Brave Bird and SpD Talon as the former is its most common set (with CB being mostly suboptimal nowadays) and SpD both fitting on stall and shutting it down. I could see maybe having an attribute that allows it to heal up quickly while on the field as being a possible choice for implementation, and I think multiple abilities is definitely the way to go with this concept.

@Matt_192 do you have any input?

 

[Matt_192]

Well, most Keldeo nowadays are actually SubCM, and that set just flat out beats stall barring Haze, Unaware and Phazing, so something that can beat that will be an absolute must. Also, I could see it having multiple abilities - maybe Unaware and Regen or something? IDK, but this kind of thing would open the way for it to fit onto more teams and maximise the experimentation with the concept. As for Talon, the sets that we need to be the most aware of is Itemless/Sharp Beak SD Talon with Acrobatics/Brave Bird and SpD Talon as the former is its most common set (with CB being mostly suboptimal nowadays) and SpD both fitting on stall and shutting it down. I could see maybe having an attribute that allows it to heal up quickly while on the field as being a possible choice for implementation, and I think multiple abilities is definitely the way to go with this concept.

@Matt_192 do you have any input?

Although we can't finalise anything yet, I do agree that Unaware would be a good option on this 'mon. To counter Talon, I would suggest a typing that would beat it instead of trying to cram so many useful abilities onto it.