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Active Price Tiering Suggestion

WSawyer

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Thanks for the quick reply :)

I get the clones thing completely - my starting issue came down to them effectively still being BR Pokemon so should be worth 60PC, but I understand the issues. Clones are a bit of an interesting one to discuss, so maybe a 20PC-per-clone thing but we allow shops to give out discounts for bulk purchases? Obviously these would have to be monitored but it couldn't hurt as long as people read the rules thoroughly.

Discards from breeding fair enough. If we're referring to 6IV either as a 31/31/31/31/31/31 Pokemon, a 31/x/31/y/31/z Pokemon (where x or y = 0 and/or z = 0) or a specific hidden power then I'd agree, but generally if people want say, a special attacker, they won't be too annoyed about not having a 0 attack stat even if it means that they take slightly more from Foul Play. Due to this, my issue is, again, controlling this.

I get your points here. IMO the best balance we can possibly have for doing this is a tiering distinction: some things can be sold for 20PC, the rest is 60PC. 20PC would include clones, items, (possibly 5IV Level 1s, again, it'll take moderation), etc as long as we can check it over first, and 60PC would be for the rest (basically BR KB/HB Pokemon). I get that this will take a bit more moderation than we're used to, but if we were going to do this distinction, an A or B (20 vs 60) approach would be much better than scattering prices between 10PC and 60PC imo.

Thanks for your input :)

@doulie - you may wanna take a look over this thread. My full response is on the second page (posts #38 - #40 ).
Thanks for your input :)
I am definitely on board for the 20/60 division. That does sound much more simple, and easier to enforce. I also like the bulk discount for clones :)

I guess my last question would be about the 55PC for pre-made pokes. I thought that would be a nice way to get more pre-mades to sell, but I'm not sure if it's gonna be abused or not.

I'll make another tiering system (4) to map out your ideas, and hopefully @doulie will check it out.
 

WSawyer

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ROUGH TIERING SYSTEM 4

Perfect, 6IV, Custom, Battle-Ready Pokemon-
60PC min

Pre-made Stock Pokemon-
55PC min

Pokemon Editing Services- 20PC min (maybe with extra 5PC charges per change)

Items-
20PC min

Breeding Discards, Dex Fillers, Pokerus (5IV or less, non-specialized, no item)-
20PC min

Pokemon Cloning Services- 20PC min per clone (with bulk deals allowed)​
 

RedQueenIzanami

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Thanks @Matt_192 for the thorough response :) You've given me a lot to reply to haha...

To start off with, the only services listed here below 20PC are dex fillers (which take various, but often very low amounts of effort to obtain), and Pokemon clones. The reason the clones are priced at 10PC is because people often buy these in bulk, meaning that the final transaction would likely appear much higher in price. However, if you strongly feel that this is an issue, I would suggest replacing the per-pokemon idea with a 60PC-for-4-clones idea, or something of similar nature. I personally feel that 30-35PC per clone is too high.

As far as bred Pokemon goes, I'm talking about the discards from breeding. Please refer to @RedQueenIzanami 's thread about a breeding forum, and @Saraceaser 's comment here. The problem is that these Pokemon are, for the most part, only valuable to breeders, casual players, and those who do not gen. And for breeders (I am a breeder myself, though I do not sell on the site) 5IV discards are simply a byproduct and take essentially no "effort" to develop. To most (competitive players), unless they are 6IV and battle ready, they are not worth 60PC. This means that the only way us breeders can sell is from a nearly bare-minimum standpoint.

To address your comment about price points, I am not trying to affect those sellers at all. I am only trying to increase the selling of items that are currently not being sold at all (no one would buy an item for 60PC, regardless of if it was offered, which is usually isn't).

About item prices, I'm glad you agree :)

About your final point, it is true that new members hardly read the rules, and staff have to go in and fix things. But as you mentioned, that's already happening. I get that it's easier to give them a single 60PC min that a list of tiers, but easy doesn't = better. Perhaps the breeding discards and dex fillers should be pooled into a single 20PC price point to make things a bit more simple, but I still believe the tiering is worth the extra effort (I know I'm not a mod, I'm not doing that work, but in my attempt to put myself in your shoes this is how I feel).
Thank you so much for the mention and thorough response! And I agree fully, that some price tier adjustments should be made to better help the community out! : o because right now, not much pc is circulating around with prices being set a certain way... (Because all the fillers that you needed to complete the dex *cough* lvl 3 2IV luvdisc *cough* are the same price as level 5,000 mega Kyogre with the key to existence as a held item...and did i mention it's also shiny and legit? >_>...yes...this is an extreme exaggeration... But it gets the point across of people would feel better about purchasing that dex filler at a lower price than at the same price as a mega awesome Pokemon o.o; ) aaaaaaaand I've officially put in my two cents on the price tier adjusting :3
 
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Saraceaser

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ROUGH TIERING SYSTEM 4

Perfect, 6IV, Custom, Battle-Ready Pokemon-
60PC min

Pre-made Stock Pokemon-
55PC min

Pokemon Editing Services- 20PC min (maybe with extra 5PC charges per change)

Items-
20PC min

Breeding Discards, Dex Fillers, Pokerus (5IV or less, non-specialized, no item)-
20PC min

Pokemon Cloning Services- 20PC min per clone (with bulk deals allowed)​
I actually quite like this tiering better, as it's much more simple and easy to understand and use. ;) But there is a few things I would like to point out.

First, I understand where you all are coming from for the Pokemon editing changes, 20-25PC is fair enough, but it's going to be hard to control this. The reason I say this is mainly for the reason of the use of Chat. Unless they're totally trusted and wouldn't use this loophole, those who are here just to make a quick buck will just resort to, well, I guess you can call it a 'blackmarket dealing'. What I mean is, that if shops were given the option for this pricing, they would be basically be asked to go by the Honour Code, and I don't mean to sound mean when I say this or any of this, but I can guess that a few people may just use Chat to conduct these Blackmarket Deals and give more editing changes for the same price or something along those lines, though I guess people already do this from what I understand? Just thought I'd point that out, and I can understand where the mods and all are coming from when they say it would be hard to control, but I bet a bit of creativity could come up with a nice system to help control this.

Secondly, there's something I'd like to point out about the breed Pokemon thing. Since you place Bred Discards and Dex Fillers in the same category, a few problems arise with this. The thing is that this allows for many people to extort this by giving any Pokemon that can be considered a simple 'Dex Filler' or just a good 'Bred Discard' and unless they have proof if they or aren't, they could sell the 6 IV BR Poke for the same price under those terms. I can understand where the Mods and all are coming from when they say it would be hard to monitor, but like I said, a bit of creativity can go a long way, and it's not like some are already using the 'Blackmarket' already, anyways.

That, and some of the more Pro Breeders may feel upset if they breed Pokemon that are/or close to being Battle Ready, since all Bred Pokemon would cost this same even after all their hard work. Just saying this from a breeders' stand point after talking to some of my fellow breeders here in PP who already are unhappy to compete with quickly made genned Pokemon.
 
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Fisherman Paul

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In response to the rough tiering system. I really like it. But I also think Pokémon Prices could use some fixes. In the current system we're paying as much for a 6IV level 10 as for a 6IV Shiny Arceus level 100. Of course we're also getting a Master Ball with a Starly for the same price as a 6IV Shiny Garchomp holding a Master Ball. Here's my idea of how the tiering system should look like for Pokémon. It should not only bring a more realistic system, but also a system that is more fair for shops, breeders and customers. Of course it's all based on minimum prices. Let me know what you think of it! Is the system maybe a little too complicated or is it just fine?

PokéShops:

6IV First Stage Evolution and Baby Pokémon:
40PC
6IV Second Stage Evolution Pokémon: 50PC
6IV Third Stage Evolution Pokémon: 60PC
6IV Legendary Pokémon: 70PC
6IV Mythical Pokémon: 90PC

Shiny fee: 10PC
Item fee: 20PC (Megastones/Masterball/Soul Dew)
Item fee #2: 10PC (All other items)

5IV Pokémon fee: -10PC
4IV-less Pokémon fee: -20PC

Custom Shops:

One Custom Pokémon:
80PC
Custom Pokémon Team: 400PC

*With Custom Requests it won't matter if you want an item, shiny or both. In some cases you might pay a little more on a custom while in some cases it's cheaper.

Item Shops:

Items 1*:
10PC
Items 2*: 20PC
Items 3*: 30PC

*Items need to be traded over with a 4IV or less First Stage Evolution Pokémon.
1* includes: Poké Balls / Recovery Items / Battle Items / Berries / Miscellaneous
2* includes: Hold Items / Fossils
3* includes: Mega Stones / Masterball / Soul Dew


Mod Shops:

Pokémon Editing Services:
20PC + 5PC for each ext*ra chance

*includes: IV's / EV's / Natures / Cloning (+ per clone) / Shinyfying
 

Matt_192

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In response to the rough tiering system. I really like it. But I also think Pokémon Prices could use some fixes. In the current system we're paying as much for a 6IV level 10 as for a 6IV Shiny Arceus level 100. Of course we're also getting a Master Ball with a Starly for the same price as a 6IV Shiny Garchomp holding a Master Ball. Here's my idea of how the tiering system should look like for Pokémon. It should not only bring a more realistic system, but also a system that is more fair for shops, breeders and customers. Of course it's all based on minimum prices. Let me know what you think of it! Is the system maybe a little too complicated or is it just fine?

PokéShops:

6IV First Stage Evolution and Baby Pokémon:
40PC
6IV Second Stage Evolution Pokémon: 50PC
6IV Third Stage Evolution Pokémon: 60PC
6IV Legendary Pokémon: 70PC
6IV Mythical Pokémon: 90PC

Shiny fee: 10PC
Item fee: 20PC (Megastones/Masterball/Soul Dew)
Item fee #2: 10PC (All other items)

5IV Pokémon fee: -10PC
4IV-less Pokémon fee: -20PC

Custom Shops:

One Custom Pokémon:
80PC
Custom Pokémon Team: 400PC

*With Custom Requests it won't matter if you want an item, shiny or both. In some cases you might pay a little more on a custom while in some cases it's cheaper.

Item Shops:

Items 1*:
10PC
Items 2*: 20PC
Items 3*: 30PC

*Items need to be traded over with a 4IV or less First Stage Evolution Pokémon.
1* includes: Poké Balls / Recovery Items / Battle Items / Berries / Miscellaneous
2* includes: Hold Items / Fossils
3* includes: Mega Stones / Masterball / Soul Dew


Mod Shops:

Pokémon Editing Services:
20PC + 5PC for each ext*ra chance

*includes: IV's / EV's / Natures / Cloning (+ per clone) / Shinyfying
As I said previously, whilst it's cool that you're trying to do this, the 20/60 would be far far easier to understand and we would get a lot less offences by doing this split. Also, the majority of the sellers nowadays, even if they don't have access to HBrew, do have access to a Powersaves or similar at this point, making things like distinction of items nearly meaningless. Whilst I do like the idea of separating out Pokemon, again, the pricing is too complicated and can be used by the people that have Homebrew. However, this would be better if genning shops have to clearly distinguish that they are genning shops (though I think that they do this anyway).
 

WSawyer

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I actually quite like this tiering better, as it's much more simple and easy to understand and use. ;) But there is a few things I would like to point out.

First, I understand where you all are coming from for the Pokemon editing changes, 20-25PC is fair enough, but it's going to be hard to control this. The reason I say this is mainly for the reason of the use of Chat. Unless they're totally trusted and wouldn't use this loophole, those who are here just to make a quick buck will just resort to, well, I guess you can call it a 'blackmarket dealing'. What I mean is, that if shops were given the option for this pricing, they would be basically be asked to go by the Honour Code, and I don't mean to sound mean when I say this or any of this, but I can guess that a few people may just use Chat to conduct these Blackmarket Deals and give more editing changes for the same price or something along those lines, though I guess people already do this from what I understand? Just thought I'd point that out, and I can understand where the mods and all are coming from when they say it would be hard to control, but I bet a bit of creativity could come up with a nice system to help control this.

Secondly, there's something I'd like to point out about the breed Pokemon thing. Since you place Bred Discards and Dex Fillers in the same category, a few problems arise with this. The thing is that this allows for many people to extort this by giving any Pokemon that can be considered a simple 'Dex Filler' or just a good 'Bred Discard' and unless they have proof if they or aren't, they could sell the 6 IV BR Poke for the same price under those terms. I can understand where the Mods and all are coming from when they say it would be hard to monitor, but like I said, a bit of creativity can go a long way, and it's not like some are already using the 'Blackmarket' already, anyways.

That, and some of the more Pro Breeders may feel upset if they breed Pokemon that are/or close to being Battle Ready, since all Bred Pokemon would cost this same even after all their hard work. Just saying this from a breeders' stand point after talking to some of my fellow breeders here in PP who already are unhappy to compete with quickly made genned Pokemon.
Thanks for the response :)

To start off with, yes technically the editors could make more changes for the same price. That's actually allowed in the current system (they don't have to charge the extra 5PC per change, it's just recommended). However, for the amount of work that it takes to edit a Pokemon, it's very unlikely that someone will completely perfect a Pokemon for only 20PC, with no extra charges. Unfortunately we can't make the extra charges mandatory, because that really is impossible to manage.

About your second point, you should check out the other forum and read @Matt_192 's response (because others started posting long comments on it...). Basically, no one is going to get away with covering a 6IV Pokemon, at least not for very long. And even if they did, they're making 1/3 of the credits they would be making from following the rules, and its unlikely that their black market deals will bring them 3 times the customers.

To address your last point, honestly the benefit comes from the fact that people are more likely to buy a better Pokemon. The breeders in that situation have to advertise why their bred Pokemon are better, and hope for more customers, rather than more PC per transaction.
 

Cheza

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I'm OK for a price minimum of 20pc per held item, keeping the 60pc for everything else, as I've had people question the fairness of held items for 60pc before.

Otherwise, an entire price tiering chart is a little much IMO. It becomes 9 different price minimums to monitor and remember + as people have said in the SB, it can be confusing for new and existing members to know all the different price minimums.
 
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