Active Seller Help Group (IATS)

[Blaguard]

I don't remember saying that anyone was a horrible person, not sure where you're getting that idea.

I think you and just about every other person may have a different idea of what a "fair" point is for prices.

Every seller on this site *IS* completely self-interested. If they weren't interested in profiting from sales here, they'd just be giving their product away. The entire argument for charging more finds its foundation in self-interest. Not only is that justifiable, it's expected and preferred.

All your points about the banner still raise the questions that I asked in my previous post.

You used the word "fair" again near the end, and again, I think you'll find that the particular definition of "fair" varies from person to person 'round these parts.

My solution to undercutting? Undercutting does not require a solution. If a job is worth your time, you determine the price. If a prospective buyer is willing to pay that price then you have determined the price correctly. The "undercutters" place a lower value on their own time, and until they decide to change that value, this "club" will not change it for them. The only way a prospective buyer would be enticed to buy from a union member is if they were scared away from the people who didn't join, which goes back to my points about a two-class seller system and slanderous comments about those who decide not to join.

If you're looking to force people to pay you more, that just isn't going to happen. There will always be undercutting, period. Unless the site incorporates rules with actual consequences, it will continue.

To Dom: (sorry I don't know how the whole quoting thing works)

You keep using ambiguous terms like "price well", "Shady sellers", and " clean business practices", but these need clear cut definitions before they can be entered as factual to this debate.

"Anyone can join if they seem sincere..."
I'm reminded of George Burns' famous quote: "The secret of success is sincerity. Once you can fake that you've got it made". Neither here nor there, just reminded of the quote, that's all. If anything, this just goes back to my other twenty questions from my last post that remain, for the most part, unanswered (ie, who decides, who decides who decides, etc)

I don't think those are worst case scenarios, although the wording I used may have been a bit extreme. The things I've mentioned will happen day one after implementation. Those within the club will denigrate those who have opted out. That is inevitable.

What's this about "finer details will be polished in the PM"? I thought PM meant Private Message around here? I'm just confused as to what this means.

I think I paid an equal amount of attention to each potential negative and positive. Each negative raised several questions, which I asked. The only positive I can foresee was "we make more money", and I think I covered that, too. If there's another positive point besides "we make more money", I'd like to hear it.

I'm glad to hear that at 17 you've studied economics, but I'm surprised that after those studies you've made the determination that price fixing works.

If you want to discuss it further you can start a conversation with us, we should free up this thread for others' input.

 

[Dom]

I don't see what we've been doing as arguing. Your proposal just raises a few questions and I asked them. It sounds like you don't have the answers quite yet, though, which isn't an issue right now because it's not happening yet. I am surprised that nobody else has brought up these issues and just started agreeing without all the details. That's very strange behavior, indeed!

Your issues aren't plausible you proposed some horrible slippery slope of events would happen and we would deviate into an elitist class talking down to all that don't join us. Realistically we will still support anyone who does not choose to join as long as they support clean business

 

[Blaguard]

To Dom: (sorry I don't know how the whole quoting thing works)

You keep using ambiguous terms like "price well", "Shady sellers", and " clean business practices", but these need clear cut definitions before they can be entered as factual to this debate.

Also^
You called it an argument.

 

[T_and_A]

Then we simply disagree. I think not only are my fears probable, but they are likely. Again "clean business" needs to be defined before it can be presented as a point. I look forward to reading your proposal when the ideas have become more fleshed out and defined.

I hope the questions I've raised help you more clearly make your decisions, and help other people consider a different point of view, as from what I've seen this thread was mostly an echo chamber. I don't think I'll spend more time on this until more information comes around.

To Blaguard, debate =/= argument. They are different words for a reason. Let's not disrupt this thread with semantics. If you want to PM me about the differences between the definitions of words, go ahead, but let's not derail the thread.

 

[Dom]

Then we simply disagree. I think not only are my fears probable, but they are likely. Again "clean business" needs to be defined before it can be presented as a point. I look forward to reading your proposal when the ideas have become more fleshed out and defined.

To Blaguard, debate =/= argument. They are different words for a reason. Let's not disrupt this thread with semantics. If you want to PM me about the differences between the definitions of words, go ahead, but let's not derail the thread.

Clean business is the practice of not undercutting, stealing customers, scamming, misleading, etc

We'll be straight with our customers 100% what yous ee is what you got we won't hijack eachother's customers etc

If you have anything else to say please PM me I'm not looking to clutter the thread with "debates"

 

[Faith Hunter]

I like the idea, but... I don't know... Anyways, I'm not a "trusted seller" yet. So for me, I've had to figure out my own ways to help establish myself on this site. I still don't know how a group like this would help new and old sellers, apart from setting new price limits, that aren't even backed site wide.

Anyways, I like the group, but doubt "shady" and bad business practices will stop.

 

[Dom]

I like the idea, but... I don't know... Anyways, I'm not a "trusted seller" yet. So for me, I've had to figure out my own ways to help establish myself on this site. I still don't know how a group like this would help new and old sellers, apart from setting new price limits, that aren't even backed site wide.

Anyways, I like the group, but doubt "shady" and bad business practices will stop.

You don't need to be trusted, I'd say you have established yourself fairly well and have a loyal customer base anyways

I think you understand the economy and although shady business practices will never stop unfortunately we can try to divert business away from them towards the honest and fair sellers. We would help new and old sellers by networking with eachother sharing customers when we don't have what our customer is buying, we would refer them to another member of the group.

Ideally this would also allow us to trust one another in the group knowing they will not steal customers from us, the price point is the main draw IMO bringing up averages in major shops raising the site average overall making more PC flow for the site and sellers while keeping the buyers at a moderate price as well

 

[phenix]

Perhaps we could form a list on an official thread of who is able to do what job?
Such as breeding, genning, powersaves, items, etc. Then if one of our customers asks for a service we can't personally provide (such as asking for a transfer move due to not knowing it's KB impossible) and we can list/link them to the list of people who can do it. It saves us from showing favoritism to certain members and funneling all orders that person. I mean, I guess people still have the potential to direct them to a particular person, but this could help.

I was thinking it would be more organized to list it like

Breeding Services -

• Phenix
  
• ...

rather than

Phenix - breeding, powersaves, etc.

so that members can look for what they need easily.

It could also provide some extra trust among us because everyone knows it's pretty fair for members to pick their own seller.

 

[Dom]

Perhaps we could form a list on an official thread of who is able to do what job?
Such as breeding, genning, powersaves, items, etc. Then if one of our customers asks for a service we can't personally provide (such as asking for a transfer move due to not knowing it's KB impossible) and we can list/link them to the list of people who can do it. It saves us from showing favoritism to certain members and funneling all orders that person. I mean, I guess people still have the potential to direct them to a particular person, but this could help.

I was thinking it would be more organized to list it like

Breeding Services -

• Phenix
  
• ...

rather than

Phenix - breeding, powersaves, etc.

so that members can look for what they need easily.

It could also provide some extra trust among us because everyone knows it's pretty fair for members to pick their own seller.

I like the idea of having it in the back on a conversation or something but I don't think sellers would be into it

I think it'd be a useful tool to have in order to organize everything for referring customers to other shops if you don't have what they want but I feel like if customers saw it like this then whoever's thread was stickied would feel cheated etc

 

[phenix]

I like the idea of having it in the back on a conversation or something but I don't think sellers would be into it

I think it'd be a useful tool to have in order to organize everything for referring customers to other shops if you don't have what they want but I feel like if customers saw it like this then whoever's thread was stickied would feel cheated etc

Eh, either way, we need a list. There just needs to be a way to, say, not have everyone refer people to Chaos just because he's the first person they think of for genning...or something similar to that.

 

[Dom]

Eh, either way, we need a list. There just needs to be a way to, say, not have everyone refer people to Chaos just because he's the first person they think of for genning...or something similar to that.

Yeah sure, I agree we can discuss details in the PM which i plan on starting when i'm free tonight

 

[Golden Rule]

I have not been here long but I believe that their should be a higher limit on certain types of sells. I belive that if prices are too low it does not spread out the wealth very much. I would like to join and SUPPORT THE CAUSE.

 

[T_and_A]

lol I don't want to "spread out the wealth". I want it to go to me. Anyone here that tells you they want the money to go to other people, and not themselves, is not being honest. Seems to me like honesty should be a requirement to join this club.

 

[Dom]

lol I don't want to "spread out the wealth". I want it to go to me. Anyone here that tells you they want the money to go to other people is not being honest.

Nobody said they wanted the money to go to others,to spread the wealth you just need to establish a reputation and once your shop gets big this will help your profits and income ideally

Aren't you quick to assume things? You've made it clear you aren't looking to help so please stop commenting here because I don't see the need, thanks

 

[Chaos]

I would join in so better prepare that banner soon before oras. I would advertise that I'm part of this "cool sellers club" and hopefully people would buy services that I don't offer to these clean sellers that is part of the group.

 

[Dom]

I would join in so better prepare that banner soon before oras. I would advertise that I'm part of this "cool sellers club" and hopefully people would buy services that I don't offer to these clean sellers that is part of the group.

I'll add you to the PM, I value your input

I'm in the process of discussing about the making of a banner as we speak as well

 

[Unproxied]

I support and back this movement 100%. This site has came a long way since the beginning and it's great to see you guys working so hard to keep the economy going strong.

I'll proudly wear an IAT sticker once I open my OR/AS shop.

 

[Stellar]

So what are the finalize prices for this group of ours?

 

[Dom]

So what are the finalize prices for this group of ours?

I'm not really sure why you posted here when it has been established that details are being discussed in the PM

 

[Beastlywolf]

I'll join! Fairness in economy makes the world go curvy