Active Banners for Tier Leaders!

[Miles8088]

I think you all overestimate our desires for a small colored banner. The tiering council has been up for a long time doing work underground in a sense. If any of us cared that much about recognition we would have said so much earlier or chosen something else to do. This was only brought up because we believe it will help the site. Its a little insulting to hear ">.> only opinions that are for yes seem to come from those who would get the banner >.>" like we are just trying to get something. The reason we are the ones bringing it up is because this is the council we are a part of which has a goal of helping the site. There's no need to say things like " the only people" When there are only 5 opinions at the moment anyhow. I respect sebs opinion to simply sit it out until we get more opinions from neutral sources because obviously we dont agree and will not come to a conclusion by going back and forward. The only reason Blaguard even brought up recognition is because we do work hard as a council and its honestly hard to comprehend where negativity would come from for something like this. Not only is recognition not the goal of this thread but what would be the harm in giving the people on this site, not just this council, but anyone who goes above and beyond a gold star and making them feel good as they continue to work to improve the site asking nothing in return. No one is asking for anyone to sacrifice anything and this whole argument is a little ridiculous imo

edit: @sebesmos I see what you mean about mods being universal, but even if someone were to see blaguards PU Tier Leader banner and they need the OU leader they can message him and he could point them in the right direction.

 

[Matt_192]

Wow, I didn't expect this to get so many responses this quickly lmao. @Ary and @sebesmos - are you saying that begging people in the shoutbox for a follow is banner worthy, yet heading a tier isn't? That seemed to be the message I got from a few of your posts.

I back @Miles8088 and @Blaguard completely - we've been working on the rankings and tier lists for a while, so if people have more questions, they can always come to us. It also raises the awareness of the fact that we have tier leaders (I have to disagree with putting a note in the sig - you just don't read them as much as you would so the banners like Miles said).

I don't disagree with the asking in the shoutbox kind of thing, but for those just scanning the forums, etc it makes it easier for people to find the leaders. On top of this, it would also make viability rankings, suspect tests and any other tiering business look a lot more professional so there really isn't a downside to just a few of us getting a small coloured banner.

I see your point about my ideas conflicting, but you've missed the point completely. My point in my previous thread was to have important banners to stay as banners - I even stated that multiple times throughout the thread. Tier Leader banners are very important to tiering in my mind, and I stand behind my OP.

 

[Strawberries]

I have to Disagree with this to be honest. Most of the time when people are looking for tier help, they would either ask in the shoutbox, or ask on a thread. Most people would ask in the public, meaning you would have to tell them yourself, making the banners themselves irrelevant. Although this gives some recognition to the tier leaders, which I understand you guys want for all your hard work, I don't think the community itself will benefit enough from this for the need of a banner.

 

[Miles8088]

I have to Disagree with this to be honest. Most of the time when people are looking for tier help, they would either ask in the shoutbox, or ask on a thread. Most people would ask in the public, meaning you would have to tell them yourself, making the banners themselves irrelevant. Although this gives some recognition to the tier leaders, which I understand you guys want for all your hard work, I don't think the community itself will benefit enough from this for the need of a banner.

I agree that right now most people ask in the sb or make a thread but you guys are missing the point. The reason those are the only ways people go about this is because a lot of people don't know about it to begin with. This would provide another way for people to access these people and this information and there is literally no downside. If we had gone to doulie with this proposal and he had agreed then none of you would have blinked twice. It would be one thing if you or the site could lose something by this but in no way would giving us banners or even testing banners effectiveness do anyone else any harm. No need to speculate when we can just test its effectiveness since none of us truly know what would happen.

 

[sebesmos]

I agree that right now most people ask in the sb or make a thread but you guys are missing the point. The reason those are the only ways people go about this is because a lot of people don't know about it to begin with. This would provide another way for people to access these people and this information and there is literally no downside. If we had gone to doulie with this proposal and he had agreed then none of you would have blinked twice. It would be one thing if you or the site could lose something by this but in no way would giving us banners or even testing banners effectiveness do anyone else any harm. No need to speculate when we can just test its effectiveness since none of us truly know what would happen.

I really don't know why you're getting so touchy about the opposing opinions. If you post a thread asking for public opinions you're always likely to get disagreements. If the public doesn't think this would be that helpful to them then I think that speaks at its own volume. Still waiting for more results though.

 

[Miles8088]

I really don't know why you're getting so touchy about the opposing opinions. If you post a thread asking for public opinions you're always likely to get disagreements. If the public doesn't think this would be that helpful to them then I think that speaks at its own volume. Still waiting for more results though.

I'm not getting touchy about other opinions, I'm getting touchy about the whole tone of this argument. I don't mind at all if someone has a different opinion than I do. I do however don't really like it when people just say that they don't see the point or reduce it to the only people saying yes get the banner. You stated your opinion, provided reasons to back it up, and provided a temporary solution that we both agree on. Even though you said the same thing that I'm being "touchy" about, you actually gave your reasons for saying it and took the time to explain. It's only annoying when people disagree in one sentence in a condescending tone when we spend so much time trying to help the site. That's all I'm saying. If the public/doulie/whoever else is considered a neutral party disagrees then I'm sure we'd be happy to just move on to the next idea, but when we are trying things to make it easier for new members on a site that doesn't retain too many of them, it's slightly annoying to just get "they can find it if they really want to". This site is a business. We want them to stay to help the site thrive. We are trying to sell them on something and want to make it as easy as possible for everyone here to get involved. It's not their job to just figure it out

 

[sebesmos]

I'm not getting touchy about other opinions, I'm getting touchy about the whole tone of this argument. I don't mind at all if someone has a different opinion than I do. I do however don't really like it when people just say that they don't see the point or reduce it to the only people saying yes get the banner. You stated your opinion, provided reasons to back it up, and provided a temporary solution that we both agree on. Even though you said the same thing that I'm being "touchy" about, you actually gave your reasons for saying it and took the time to explain. It's only annoying when people disagree in one sentence in a condescending tone when we spend so much time trying to help the site. That's all I'm saying. If the public/doulie/whoever else is considered a neutral party disagrees then I'm sure we'd be happy to just move on to the next idea, but when we are trying things to make it easier for new members on a site that doesn't retain too many of them, it's slightly annoying to just get "they can find it if they really want to". This site is a business. We want them to stay to help the site thrive. We are trying to sell them on something and want to make it as easy as possible for everyone here to get involved. It's not their job to just figure it out

I know that I've elaborated a lot on my opinion but I feel like strawberries did a valid job of arguing his side too. Saying that "if we would have went straight to doulie no one would have blinked twice" is kind of rude. Doulie is obviously highly respected and his opinion is the highest, but it doesn't mean we would blindly believe what he does. I'd still think banners aren't the most effective way to get users the help they'd be looking for, and strawberries was staying one of the points I'd already mentioned which is that most people just ask in the sb automatically for anything they need. Even users who have been here for months ask for links to the tier list. It's just little things like those that make it feel like banners aren't going to actually improve anyone's experience. And you're right, it wouldn't hurt anyone, but why put time into it if it's not going to help?

 

[Miles8088]

I know that I've elaborated a lot on my opinion but I feel like strawberries did a valid job of arguing his side too. Saying that "if we would have went straight to doulie no one would have blinked twice" is kind of rude. Doulie is obviously highly respected and his opinion is the highest, but it doesn't mean we would blindly believe what he does. I'd still think banners aren't the most effective way to get users the help they'd be looking for, and strawberries was staying one of the points I'd already mentioned which is that most people just ask in the sb automatically for anything they need. Even users who have been here for months ask for links to the tier list. It's just little things like those that make it feel like banners aren't going to actually improve anyone's experience. And you're right, it wouldn't hurt anyone, but why put time into it if it's not going to help?

My only reason for saying that is to emphasize that we aren't trying to pull a fast one on you guys xD This thread wouldn't exist if we just wanted something or didn't want any conflicting feedback. Also it may seem that I'm arguing with you or with straw but the recent posts by you guys aren't the reason I'm still on here. Straw just posted for the first time and I'm by no means attacking him. He made a point and left it that and that's great. I only gave my counter argument and and if I'm coming off as a bit annoyed it's only bc of the underlying tone that I'm getting from this whole thing. I completely agree that people still ask about things in the sb. Even I ask for links sometimes. But the point of this is to have as many ways to this information as possible so we reach as many users as possible. If a new member goes to my shop or something and sees lc leader then they might ask questions. I know that people may not see these right away but we are just trying to cover as many users as we can bc it's currently not getting enough exposure and having something the sig (the suggestions I've seen) isn't a better option. Your idea of a static page I like as well but I see no reason why both can't be used to cover even more ground.

 

[phenix]

I'm also for the idea of both and my outlook on it is the same as his. If we do have the banner it just means more people have the chance of seeing it. The more that see it mean that more people can ask questions and possibly get into a new tier. On the best side of that situation, people would be interested and therefore would need a new team (no one has a spare NU or NFE team just sitting around) and it could help shop sales to a degree. But, you've heard my side (and Blag's) on the topic...I just feel like with so many new banners implemented lately that don't technically accomplish anything it's not a far stretch to hope this catches a few users' eyes and helps them.

 

[Matt_192]

I'm going to be honest, this whole banner as a reward was kinda a useless point, but I still back the idea in general. Raising awareness for the council and tier leaders is a great way to support what the council do,f and helps many people when teambuilding. Also, like @phenix touched on, it allows for leaders with shops to get more sales as it is clear to the customer that they know what they are talking about. E.g. I'd rather buy an RU team from clutch, the leader and E4 member, than I would from another shop. This would definitely help the site in my mind, as they could bump up prices a bit with the knowledge that the team they receive is gonna be pretty damn good.

Yes, people ask for the tier list all the time and some are becoming a lot more independent when it comes to team building, but public awareness like having specific banners to indicate who to talk to would go a long way, even if the person only wants to ask a quick question about a set/Pokemon/item, etc.

 

[sebesmos]

I'm going to be honest, this whole banner as a reward was kinda a useless point, but I still back the idea in general. Raising awareness for the council and tier leaders is a great way to support what the council do,f and helps many people when teambuilding. Also, like @phenix touched on, it allows for leaders with shops to get more sales as it is clear to the customer that they know what they are talking about. E.g. I'd rather buy an RU team from clutch, the leader and E4 member, than I would from another shop. This would definitely help the site in my mind, as they could bump up prices a bit with the knowledge that the team they receive is gonna be pretty damn good.

Yes, people ask for the tier list all the time and some are becoming a lot more independent when it comes to team building, but public awareness like having specific banners to indicate who to talk to would go a long way, even if the person only wants to ask a quick question about a set/Pokemon/item, etc.

I have to say that I completely say no because of your first point. now you're saying you want to give tier leaders more business? So basically profit off of something that started as helping the site? I dislike that 100%.

 

[Matt_192]

I have to say that I completely say no because of your first point. now you're saying you want to give tier leaders more business? So basically profit off of something that started as helping the site? I dislike that 100%.

Shops probably weren't the best way to describe this... Put it this way then - would you rather go to the RU leader for advice on RU or some other person for it? By having this banner in the forums, it means that it's easier for people to find you.

Before someone has a go at me for not just putting it in my sig or something, hardly anyone reads sigs. People do, however, read the banners that people have, and an official one such as this would make the posts look professional and raise awareness.

 

[sebesmos]

Shops probably weren't the best way to describe this... Put it this way then - would you rather go to the RU leader for advice on RU or some other person for it? By having this banner in the forums, it means that it's easier for people to find you.

Before someone has a go at me for not just putting it in my sig or something, hardly anyone reads sigs. People do, however, read the banners that people have, and an official one such as this would make the posts look professional and raise awareness.

If this is about profit, it truly does belong in your signature. Dom has won 7 tourneys. Should he have a banner for being a great battler so people know he makes great teams and buy from him?

Either this is about helping users, which is good and the only way I'd ever back this idea (with user interest) or its about something personal. I don't think we would ever implement an idea that would give anyone an unfair advantage in selling.

 

[Matt_192]

If this is about profit, it truly does belong in your signature. Dom has won 7 tourneys. Should he have a banner for being a great battler so people know he makes great teams and buy from him?

Either this is about helping users, which is good and the only way I'd ever back this idea (with user interest) or its about something personal. I don't think we would ever implement an idea that would give anyone an unfair advantage in selling.

I literally just said ignore the selling.

You could said the same thing about tournaments - i.e. if you win more tournaments you get more experience thus showing that you can build teams better, so you get an advantage in selling.

 

[phenix]

For the shops point, I see it as this...I help people build teams relatively often. I've helped with several recently, but I actually rarely sell the team to the person I'm helping.
I can't speak for everyone, but if I were to help someone with a team there's a pretty solid chance they user would buy from someone else lol. So personally I wouldn't have any profit for it, but it could help someones sales since this user wouldn't normally purchase a team/Pokemon for that tier.

 

[sebesmos]

I literally just said ignore the selling.

You could said the same thing about tournaments - i.e. if you win more tournaments you get more experience thus showing that you can build teams better, so you get an advantage in selling.

You already said it, but it brings up another concern. Would it give you advantages over other sellers? Trusted seller does, but it's earnable by all users, where this banner would only be for a select few.

I just think that if you're going to continue arguing this point you need to stay on the "helping users" bit, because this seems even worse now, although I do like what @phenix said.

 

[Cheza]

I've read a few of these posts, I feel like if every tier leader created a thread about their tier and used that thread for people to ask the leaders questions it would be more helpful. I could even sticky them in the competitive battling section.

Then all the leaders could have "OU Tier Leader, UU Tier Leader etc" in their signature and hyperlink it.

I find banners really don't help much at all, before mods where added as staff members and appeared on the side of the website people where always confused about who the mods were and who they should contact for help. You know how active mods have to be in the forums xD

 

[Yungfaux]

Why not have the banners and the pages?

 

[sebesmos]

Why not have the banners and the pages?

Why not have banners for every single position we have on the site? They just wouldn't be helpful in all cases. Like @Cheza brought up earlier, a lot of people don't read the banners. The page would be far more helpful imo.

 

[Yungfaux]

Why not have banners for every single position we have on the site? They just wouldn't be helpful in all cases. Like @Cheza brought up earlier, a lot of people don't read the banners. The page would be far more helpful imo.

But hear me out, the banners are only going to help people, even if it's rarely, its not like they're gonna un-help people xD idk I just don't see a problem, its a win/win to have both in my eyes, even if one win is bigger than the other.