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Active Official ORAS Tier Discussion

Gold 2.0

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You ruin all of my fun m8

But oh well

My name's @Gold 2.0 and I'd like to apply for the Tiering council yet again. I was heavily involved in the last Tiering council, assisting @Matt_192 and @Marigi174 in making the base tier settings for X & Y tiers. I'm an experienced battler who began battling in HGSS and have achieved many accolades among the years, including a tournament belt from the tournament held here a while back which earned me the title "Immortal" along with placing second in 5 other tournaments, including PP's largest tournament "King of the Ring." Im also the current champion of perfect pokemon. Soooo yeah. You should really sign me up, G. xD
 

Dom

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You ruin all of my fun m8

But oh well

My name's @Gold 2.0 and I'd like to apply for the Tiering council yet again. I was heavily involved in the last Tiering council, assisting @Matt_192 and @Marigi174 in making the base tier settings for X & Y tiers. I'm an experienced battler who began battling in HGSS and have achieved many accolades among the years, including a tournament belt from the tournament held here a while back which earned me the title "Immortal" along with placing second in 5 other tournaments, including PP's largest tournament "King of the Ring." Im also the current champion of perfect pokemon. Soooo yeah. You should really sign me up, G. xD

That's more like it, I'll get back to you in a bit
 

Cheza

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I'm interested in joining the council. :)

I'd like to share my opinions on Pokemon that are considered for a ban and keep the tournaments and gyms fair.

I know a good amount about Pokemon/competitive battling and the tiers and would be happy to do some showdown test battles with other members in the council. :D
 

Dom

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DelphoxLife

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Well, we're almost done, so ASAP if you can please
In that case, I won't be ready. I will try apply next time something like this comes around.
 

MrSilver

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inb4 Smogon hate: Try to respond to the points they make, not the reputation they have as a community. We are not Smogon, but that doesn't mute their argument.
Smogon had some legitimate reasons why Aegislash should be in Ubers.
I agree with them all.

The OU tier leader brought up the following points as to why it had to go:
  • Aegislash is an extremely effective Pokemon and has very high risk:reward output.
  • Aegislash has multiple different sets that are all effective.
  • It has numerous sets, most of which are handled differently. If you guess the purpose wrong, you're often losing at least 1 Pokemon
  • it introduces literal arbitrary decisions, namely in the form of frequent 50/50s with King's Shield. This is so important because the 50/50 decision IS NOT an even trade for user and opponent, which people seem to be arguing it is. Remember, using King's Shield makes Aegislash have 150 defenses again...meaning the user has the 50/50 as well as 150 defenses. The opponent only has the 50/50. Yes, the user might guess wrong and the opponent "can set up," but this is a specific scenario and dependent on the 50/50, not independent of it.
  • Guessing between attacking or not attack Aegislash has determined many high level ladder matches, and there is no skill involved here. It is simple arbitrary guessing. There is no "gaining of information" on the opponent to "best predict" a switch or something...it is literally just "here is a guess, make it, hope for the best." So, Aegislash forces the opponent to guess its set, at the risk of losing a significant member, and forces the opponent to guess an arbitrary 50/50 which is not even, at the risk of again losing a significant member.
OU Tier Leader,Aldaron

I believe banning Aegislash would be beneficial to the community. By having to have one less check or counter to a standard OU team we can have greater variety of Mon's between battlers.

 

notsoclutch

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inb4 Smogon hate: Try to respond to the points they make, not the reputation they have as a community. We are not Smogon, but that doesn't mute their argument.
Smogon had some legitimate reasons why Aegislash should be in Ubers.
I agree with them all.

The OU tier leader brought up the following points as to why it had to go:
  • Aegislash is an extremely effective Pokemon and has very high risk:reward output.
  • Aegislash has multiple different sets that are all effective.
  • It has numerous sets, most of which are handled differently. If you guess the purpose wrong, you're often losing at least 1 Pokemon
  • it introduces literal arbitrary decisions, namely in the form of frequent 50/50s with King's Shield. This is so important because the 50/50 decision IS NOT an even trade for user and opponent, which people seem to be arguing it is. Remember, using King's Shield makes Aegislash have 150 defenses again...meaning the user has the 50/50 as well as 150 defenses. The opponent only has the 50/50. Yes, the user might guess wrong and the opponent "can set up," but this is a specific scenario and dependent on the 50/50, not independent of it.
  • Guessing between attacking or not attack Aegislash has determined many high level ladder matches, and there is no skill involved here. It is simple arbitrary guessing. There is no "gaining of information" on the opponent to "best predict" a switch or something...it is literally just "here is a guess, make it, hope for the best." So, Aegislash forces the opponent to guess its set, at the risk of losing a significant member, and forces the opponent to guess an arbitrary 50/50 which is not even, at the risk of again losing a significant member.
OU Tier Leader,Aldaron

I believe banning Aegislash would be beneficial to the community. By having to have one less check or counter to a standard OU team we can have greater variety of Mon's between battlers.
While Smogon does have great points and I agree that it may have been a good idea for Smogon to ban Aegislash, here on Perfect Pokemon, we can generally determine the Aegislash set by looking at the rest of the team. This isn't to say we are better than Smogon players (as most of us aren't quite as good as the best Smogon has to offer), but because of our item clause. This makes sets like the sub toxic set and the autonomize set very predictable and it makes it overall easier to play under the assumption that SD or wall breaker sets are what you will be facing (unless you are playing against HO in which case spin blocker slash is also possible). These two sets are great and do counter/check a lot of things and do still cause a lot of 50/50 moments with kings shield, but it does make Aegislash less unpredictable and easier to handle.
 

Dom

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inb4 Smogon hate: Try to respond to the points they make, not the reputation they have as a community. We are not Smogon, but that doesn't mute their argument.
Smogon had some legitimate reasons why Aegislash should be in Ubers.
I agree with them all.

The OU tier leader brought up the following points as to why it had to go:
  • Aegislash is an extremely effective Pokemon and has very high risk:reward output.
  • Aegislash has multiple different sets that are all effective.
  • It has numerous sets, most of which are handled differently. If you guess the purpose wrong, you're often losing at least 1 Pokemon
  • it introduces literal arbitrary decisions, namely in the form of frequent 50/50s with King's Shield. This is so important because the 50/50 decision IS NOT an even trade for user and opponent, which people seem to be arguing it is. Remember, using King's Shield makes Aegislash have 150 defenses again...meaning the user has the 50/50 as well as 150 defenses. The opponent only has the 50/50. Yes, the user might guess wrong and the opponent "can set up," but this is a specific scenario and dependent on the 50/50, not independent of it.
  • Guessing between attacking or not attack Aegislash has determined many high level ladder matches, and there is no skill involved here. It is simple arbitrary guessing. There is no "gaining of information" on the opponent to "best predict" a switch or something...it is literally just "here is a guess, make it, hope for the best." So, Aegislash forces the opponent to guess its set, at the risk of losing a significant member, and forces the opponent to guess an arbitrary 50/50 which is not even, at the risk of again losing a significant member.
OU Tier Leader,Aldaron

I believe banning Aegislash would be beneficial to the community. By having to have one less check or counter to a standard OU team we can have greater variety of Mon's between battlers.

"High Risk"
Risk indicates that it may not work and if it doesn't you're in trouble, High Risk High Reward stands for a lot of the meta game, I don't really see the point here
Saying something is high risk high reward isn't really an argument on it being OP it seems like an argument on why it's fine in OU to be honest, I'm confused on that

Arbitrary guessing makes up the entire competitive scene it's just different because we call it predicting...
The game involves a lot of luck in the form of status ailments such as paralyzing and freezing or confusion, etc then we have flinching and critical hits and misses and the list goes on.
The move Protect in itself does what is mentioned here, it forces arbitrary guessing
Guessing does cause matches to swing either way in the form of predictions, whether you like it or not, remove Aegislash and the game is still mostly guessing with a touch of luck.


  • Aegislash has multiple different sets that are all effective.
  • It has numerous sets, most of which are handled differently. If you guess the purpose wrong, you're often losing at least 1 Pokemon
This seems like a redundancy introduced in order to make his argument seem like it has more points than it does

"I believe banning Aegislash would be beneficial to the community. By having to have one less check or counter to a standard OU team we can have greater variety of Mon's between battlers."

You could say this about many pokemon, banning one pokemon does not allow us to use more mons because a dedicated counter is not needed, with knock off on the rise and 3 of the most common pokemon in OU being Rotom-W, Landorous-T, and Bisharp who are all great against Aegislash it seems like you'll be just fine. He's also weak to Earthquake, Fire Moves, Dark Moves and Ghost Moves and Mega Lopunny was introduced recently in order to hit him with fighting moves for SE damage (just an example)

Your statements make it sound like we didn't acknowledge Smogon's views and believe me we took a lot of things into account and we have a lot of people on the Council who know what they're talking about, we did consider these points and although some are decent I suppose overall he is not a large enough threat to warrant a bump to Ubers.

(Oh and a side note, Protect does what King Shield shield does in the form of arbitrary guessing but it also allows Aegi to get hit by status moves such as burns which will completely cripple his physical set)
 

Matt_192

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Just to make note, i dont see exploud on the ORAS tier list.
Hmm, I knew Exploud was something I needed to go through and I could have sworn I put it on... Thanks anyway :)
 

Miles8088

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I'd like to join the tiering council :) Im sorry Ive been late on a few of these things as I was MIA for a bit. I have a lot of experience in ou and gyms as I have been a gym leader and frequent of the ou tier since joining the site about 9 months ago. Although I can make some boneheaded plays in battles sometimes when I'm not focused I have a thorough theoretical understanding of the meta and have lots to offer in a council like this. I look forward to helping to keep battles here fair without overstepping and breaking the balance of the meta.

EDIT: I would also be very open to taking on a different tier as I assume you already have an ou leader. I have an obsessive personality so once I get on a project I like, I go all in xD


Looking forward to your response
 

Loli-Shark

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I'd like to be a member of the tiering council too :3 I'm really into doing battles with pokemon from lower tiers in higher tiers (according to smogon tiering this is) and I have a few ideas about pokemon that should probably be put much higher buuutttt... not may people that I know use them in OU... probably because they see the OU in teambuilder and are like ''Spore Breloom is a definite, and I need a brave bird, gale wings talonflame to counter my opponent who will be using a breloom and the mega manectric'' etc, etc, when really in my opinion, you can't go wrong with an RU specs exploud, or a UU shell smash Cloyster... But I'm going on now XD
 

phenix

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I'd like to be a member of the tiering council too :3 I'm really into doing battles with pokemon from lower tiers in higher tiers (according to smogon tiering this is) and I have a few ideas about pokemon that should probably be put much higher buuutttt... not may people that I know use them in OU... probably because they see the OU in teambuilder and are like ''Spore Breloom is a definite, and I need a brave bird, gale wings talonflame to counter my opponent who will be using a breloom and the mega manectric'' etc, etc, when really in my opinion, you can't go wrong with an RU specs exploud, or a UU shell smash Cloyster... But I'm going on now XD
Well, the interesting thing about tiering is why it's in place. :)
While a Pokemon can be from a lower tier and work just fine in a higher tier, it's usually put in its particular place because it is outclassed by another Pokemon, fails to reach the level of power/bulk/speed as higher tier mons, dies too easily to certain Pokemon/moves, etc.
Such as shell smash Cloyster fitting very well on a number of OU teams, but also requiring rocks to be cleared (if sash), priority to be taken out, and set up to actually do reasonable damage. All of this is what has caused it to not be OU.

I've no doubt that you can help! :D
Just don't get too caught up in thinking that just because something can work in a higher tier, it doesn't mean it needs to go there.
 

Baron Aaron

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Well,Cloyster WAS once OU. Now it's not because we have a better understanding. Pokemon is getting more complex these days.
 
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